Lord Castlereaghmoved that this bill be read a third time, to which he had produced two new clauses; the one extending the provisions of the bill to the fencible regiments of Royal Miners belonging to the counties of Cornwall and Devonshire; and the other restraining the operation of the bill, whenever the militia establishment fell as low as two-fifths of the quota provided by the act of 1807. The noble lord said, that the principle upon which his Bill went, was, that the Militia regiments should not be weakened to less than two-fifths of their numbers, following the regulation laid down in 1807, nor exceed three-fifths of that number.
§ Colonel Franklandcomplained, that the noble lord had introduced this clause by surprize upon the house in the last stage of the bill, without having allowed any opportunity for considering it in its various bearings. It was a clause which would go totally to change the established order of the Militia, and went in a particular degree to affect the regiment with which he happened to be best connected. It would operate as a premium to those counties which had been negligent in carrying into effect the Militia act, and tend to encourage such negligence for the future, while it would operate as a heavy and oppressive penalty on those counties which have done their duty by completing their ballots, as it was upon such counties only this bill would have operation, by creating the necessity for a new ballot 652 where the ballots had already taken place to their fullest extent.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, this clause did no more than carry into effect the principle of the former Militia Enlistment bill, which allowed the privates in each regiment, to the number of three-fifths, to enlist into the line. With regard to any partial oppression upon counties which had completed their ballots, and the operation as a premium to others which had not completed their levies, apprehended by the hon. gent, his fears were groundless; for by the last returns of the different counties, it appeared that of the 36,000 men to be raised, the deficiency was not more than 2000 and a fraction, so that the operation of the bill must be general. Besides, in the other bill which he meant to bring forward on the subject, a very considerable relief would be afforded to the ballotted men, towards the means of providing substitutes.
§ Col. Lovedenjoined in the objections of col. Frankland.
Lord Castlereaghhad no objection to withdraw the amendment, not wishing to press it without allowing time for further consideration.
§ The Speakerobserved the clause had now passed the first and second readings, and was agreed to by the house, and therefore could not be withdrawn consisently with the forms of proceeding. The Clause was read a third lime and agreed to. Several other amendments were then moved by lord Castlereagh, and agreed to.—Upon the question being put that the bill do pass,
§ Lord Miltonrose to object to it altogether, as being a measure introduced in direct violation of what he always understood to be the positive pledge of the noble lord upon the introduction of his former bill; namely, that it was not to be adopted as a regular and permanent system, but only to be resorted to on great and urgent occasions. It was upon the strength of this promise that many gentlemen were induced to agree to the principle, who never expected that the noble lord would convert a measure, avowedly of temporary pressure, into a regular and permanent system. But now, without stating any such emergency, the noble lord revived the measure, and seemed to rest upon it as a regular expedient for recruiting the troops of the line. But the measure itself could not fail to produce the most mischievous effects upon the discipline 653 and morality of the militia regiments themselves, by exposing the privates to be tampered with by intoxication and other means equally destructive to morals and discipline, in order to induce them to enlist; and therefore, even if it were objectionable upon no other ground, it was highly so upon this. One great object of keeping up the militia force within the country, was, that it might be ready to meet an enemy in case of invasion: but if by the principle of this bill the best disciplined men of the militia regiments were to be drafted into the disposable force, and the militia regiments thus reduced to skeletons, and left to be filled up with raw levies, the noble lord would not say, that regiments so circumstanced, and only called out for a month in the year, could be fit to meet an enemy in the field. He therefore thought the country rather hardly dealt by in this measure, not only upon the ground he had stated, but by the oppressive burthens which a fresh ballot would impose. The noble lord, it seemed, had at last found out that the ballot was oppressive on the people; and he had found out an expedient for easing the burthen, by allowing to each balloted man ten guineas towards the bounty for procuring a substitute. The only operation however to be expected from this was to raise the price of substitutes, and impose in another way, a heavy burthen on the country. This was truly a most notable expedient, one which it was quite impossible the noble lord himself could expect to produce the effects he proposed. Upon the whole, he was decidedly averse, after so recently carrying into effect a militia ballot throughout the country, to resort again to another, and thus for the noble lord to come forward, year after year, with a measure like this, totally subversive of the original intent and constitution of the militia, and converting it to a mere vehicle for recruiting the line.
§ Mr. Shaw Lefevrewas also averse to this measure, and testified to the severity with which the militia ballots operated. He regretted that the noble lord should bring forward the present bill, and urge it through the house, before he introduced the other bill, of which he had given notice. On the former occasion, both bills were brought forward together, and the house had an opportunity of discussing them in their progress. He wished the noble lord to slate when he meant to introduce his other bill.
§ Sir George Warrender,though wishing to increase the disposable force of the country, thought the means proposed by this bill circuitous, inefficacious, and hostile to their own operation. He should rather at once vote for a bill to enable the whole of the militia to volunteer into the line, than take away one half of the militia, and leave the other to be filled up by recruits. It would be infinitely less oppressive to ballot men at once for the line.
§ Mr. Windhamrose, and said, that if he forbore troubling the house at present at any length, it was not from want of a due sense of the many and radical objections to which the present measure was liable; but as another Bill was shortly to be introduced, when there would be full opportunity of discussion, he should reserve himself for that occasion; though it was rather unfortunate that his observations would come after half of a measure had been already adopted. But, while the present Inquiry into the Conduct of the Commander in Chief which so occupied their attention, to the exclusion of the weightiest considerations, considerations affecting the very existence of the empire, lasted, it was difficult, if not impossible to find opportunity for any other discussion. By the mode they had thought proper to adopt in conducting that inquiry, which, however, he thought could have been attained by a different course, as effectual, and certainly more speedy, it was now found they could not calculate upon its probable conclusion; on the contrary, they had no controul whatever over their own proceedings, for a single woman (Mrs. Clarke) had shewn that she could rout them horse and foot; it was, therefore, he thought the noble lord should not have brought the business on in such a situation. However detrimental the course they had adopted of prosecuting the Inquiry was, both to the service of the country and to the character of the house, they were thereby reduced to the necessity of submitting to see a measure which was only temporary, become permanent, without either the attention or attendance of the house. He should, therefore, reserve himself till the opportunity arrived of discussing it attentively, only contenting himself with saying, that however politically hostile he might be to the present administration, there was no measure, their conduct respecting Spain not excepted; he 655 would sooner take, whereon to form a just estimate of the weakness of their counsels.
§ —The Bill was then passed and ordered to the Lords.