PAPERS RELATING TO DENMARK. (Hansard, 26 February 1808)

Mr. Secretary Canning,
pursuant to notice, rose for the purpose of moving for copies or extracts of any dispatches that had been sent in Nov. or Dec. 1806, by Mr. Garlike his majesty's minister to the court of Denmark, to his majesty's secretary of state for foreign affairs, relating to the ac- 756 tual or intended invasion of Holstein by the army of France. It was also his intention to move for the several other Papers front which he had quoted passages to the house on a former occasion. His object was by producing the documents, to correct those misconstructions which had been put upon his conduct and language in that instance. As he did not feel it necessary to make any further observation on the subject of the motion, he should barely move, that an humble Address be presented to his majesty, &c.—On the motion being put,

Lord Folkestone
said, that he had been one of those who, on the former occasion, in part persuaded by the arguments of the right hon. gent. and in part from his own conviction, had resisted the production of these Papers. Nothing that had since occurred had altered his opinion. If these papers were necessary to be produced, a great many more would be necessary, in order to set the persons who were concerned right with the public. These would not be sufficient to justify Mr. Garlike, who could not be set right with the public but by the production of all his dispatches, down to the time of the expedition to Copenhagen.

Mr. Ponsonby
could with difficulty object to the production of any papers that might be necessary for the justification of any hon. gent.'s conduct. But he had not so much respect for the feelings of any individual, as to think that the public service should be sacrificed to them. The right hon. gent. had made his extracts from the papers, to shew that there had been a hostile feeling in Denmark, and that this opinion of the present ministers had been fortified by the opinion of the late administration. But Mr. Garlike's dispatches dated in Nov. and Dec. 1806, would not be sufficient for his purpose, it would be necessary to produce all the dispatches that had been received down to the time of the expedition. A suspicion might have been entertained in 1806, which had afterwards been removed, and something of this description had, he believed, taken place, because in the commencement of 1807, a large fleet had been collected, intended for the Baltic, which had afterwards been sent on various other destinations, when the suspicion respecting Denmark had been removed. The right. hon. gent. first endeavoured to justify the expedition, and then he came to justify himself but he could not justify 757 himself, unless he produced all the papers. He had thought the hon. gent. had intended to produce all the correspondence of Mr. Garlike, but if he should not, he gave him notice that he would again vote for the production of those papers which he had before made motions to obtain.

§ Mr. Tierney
felt compassion for the right hon. gentlemen opposite, whom he beheld in the pitiable situation of being called upon now to vote for what they had rejected but two or three weeks since. This was the first instance in which such a proceeding had taken place in parliament. The right hon. gent. had first resisted the production of the papers on public grounds, and afterwards when called for on private grounds, for the justification of his noble friend (lord Howick); but now that the right hon. gent.'s own character was touched, he was ready to produce the papers. He was glad the right hon. gent. at length shewed such a laudable attention to character, and thought it worth preserving. But, leaving private character out of the question, he saw no reason why more attention should be paid to the character of the right hon. gent. than to that of his noble predecessor, who had served his maj. in the same office, with as much fidelity, as the right hon. gent. The effect of the proceeding of the right hon. gent. would be to shew that that house was the instrument of the secretary of state. Had any thing occurred since the former vote, to shew that there was less danger in the production of the papers now than at that period? The character of Mr. Garlike, to whom public character must be so dear, could not be justified but by the production of all the papers. If right. hon. gent. should not consent to that, he would compromise the character of the house by the refusal. Let the house sec in that the danger of raising men too high, let them see the degraded and disgraced state to which they would be reduced, and which would sink them in the estimation of their country, and perhaps of the sovereign himself. (A loud cry of order.)

§ The Speaker
declared his disapprobation of the course pursued by the right hon. gent.; and for this reason, because he appeared to be expressing an opinion of the sovereign on the conduct of an individual in that house.

§ Mr. Tierney
was not conscious of having any such intention, but having been interrupted in the chain of what he had to state to the house, declined proceeding, declaring that nothing had occurred in the 758 few last weeks to justify the alteration of the course then adopted by the house.
The vote of the 8th of was then read, on the motion of Mr. Adam; and the Speaker decided, that if the paper now moved for was that which had been in the former instance rejected, the house could not now vote for it, but it would be for the house to judge how far the present paper was more or less than that which had been refused in that case.—After a short conversation upon the subject of order, relative to comments upon the expressions of Mr. Tierney, which had not been taken down, but which the Speaker decided might be made the subject of comment by way of explanation, though not the ground of a decision of the house.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer
said, he was at a loss to know whether the gentlemen opposed or supported the motion of his right hon. friend, [it was intimated across the table that they supported it.] Then, he could not see how his learned friend's question upon the order, by,requiring the entry of the vote of the 8th of Feb. to be read, could be construed into a support of the motion. The house would perceive, that the production of these Papers would be a source of disappointment to the gentlemen opposite, because it would deprive them of the foundation of much declamation, in accusing his right hon. friend of having made garbled extracts. The Papers had never been refused on public grounds. They had been asked for to prove that his right hon. friend had misrepresented the contents of lord Howick's dispatches, which he had not done, and it was on that ground that they had been demanded and refused, because the granting them on that occasion would have been an admission on his part of the misrepresentation. If the Papers had been demanded on other grounds, his right hon. friend would not have objected to their production. What had been said would, he trusted, be sufficient to satisfy the house of the propriety of his right hon. friend's motion.

§ Mr. Windham
observed, that the hon. gentlemen opposite shewed a disposition to laugh, though their mirth resembled the singing of children in the dark, to shew they were not afraid. He contended, with his right hon. friend, that the house would, by their proceeding, be placed in a situation of indignity, and he lamented that the forms of the house did not admit of 759 ascertaining who would follow the example of the hon. gent. The papers had been refused on public and private grounds, and were now to be granted, because the character of the right hon. gent had been touched. They ought to have been produced to clear up the character of the late foreign secretary equally as well as the present. The right hon. gent. then argued to shew, that many more papers were necessary to be produced, in order to justify the right hon. secretary, or to do justice to the characters of those who had been misrepresented.

Lord Castlereagh
entered his protest against the doctrine laid down on the other side of the house, that no papers should be refused but such, as, if produced, would be prejudicial to the public service. Nothing was more common than to refuse papers when no adequate or sufficient ground was laid for the production.

§ Mr. Sheridan
had thought, when his right hon. friend introduced his motions without any observations, that it was a bad plan. But from the line of argument pursued by the noble lord, and the rt. hon. gent. on either side of him, he could not but applaud that course of his right hon. friend, and he was sure that his right hon. friend would have been well pleased, if his friends had practised the same taciturnity with himself. He defied the noble lord to produce any reason now that would not have applied equally against the papers in the former instance, and argued at some length to prove that the papers then moved for would neither be sufficient to the purpose of his right hon. friend, nor to acquit the character of Mr. Garlike; and concluded with an amendment for the production of all the communications which had been received in the course of last year—A conversation followed, in which Mr. Bankes observed, that the amendment could not be received, as being word for word the same as a motion already rejected.

§ The Speaker
confirmed the observation of Mr. Bankes, as to the point of order.

Mr. Secretary Canning
said, that though some papers which had been refused were included in his motion, the motion was in form, very different from any before offered.

§ Mr. Tierney
proposed to adjourn the debate, on the point of order.

§ Mr. Adam ,
by moving that the entry on the journals, with respect to the former motion, should be read, did not mean that 760 the rejection at that time should preclude the house from adopting the motion; but he wished the house to bear in mind all that had been done in this case, when he should come to offer his intended propositions to fix the practice of the house. He recommended that the amendment should be offered again in such a form that the house could receive it.

§ Mr. Sheridan
moved the amendment in a form different from that in which the papers mentioned in it had been formerly refused.

Mr. Secretary Canning
denied that he had made any accusation against lord Howick, by quoting his dispatch, consequently there was no necessity for producing the papers as a vindication, when no charge was made. He had merely made the quotation to shew that it was in lord Howick's contemplation, that if the French should enter Holstein, Denmark might possibly compromise for the occupation of Zealand by French troops. The present motion stood on different grounds; and he trusted the house would see reason to produce it, upon the principle on which it was now asked for, without at the same time passing the amendment. His majesty's ministers rested their defence of the proceedings against Copenhagen, upon the information already produced, upon existing circumstances, and the notoriety of what the enemy had done in similar cases. The whole of our diplomatic correspondence was not to be ripped up: it was enough, if what was material to the case in question was produced.—After some further debate, In consequence of the above motion, the following papers were on the 5th of March, presented to the house, by Mr. Secretary Canning: viz.