HC Deb 07 April 1808 vol 10 cc1327-9
The Chancellor of the Exchequer

moved the order of the day, for the second reading of the Assessed Taxes bill.

Mr. Biddulph

begged to call the attention of the house to this bill, which was about to pass without that degree of notice which its importance required. This bill went to repeal all the existing Assessed Taxes, and to grant others in lieu thereof, and as the constitutional mode of proceeding had not been taken with respect to it, and no parliamentary ground had been laid for the imposition of new taxes, however unusual it was to take such a course, he should oppose the further progress of the bill, unless some satisfactory ground should be shewn in support of the measure. The forms of the house were the constitutional barriers against innovations, such as this measure; and he should therefore oppose the measure, unless a constitutional ground should be laid for its adoption.

Mr. Huskisson,

not understanding what the hon. gent. meant by constitutional ground, begged to state to the house the grounds upon which his right hon. friend had brought forward this measure. The house would be aware that it was due to the public creditor, when an addition was made to the public debt, to make a provision for the interest and charges accruing from such an addition. It would be recollected that a sum of four millions of Exchequer bills had been funded in the course of the present session, the charge for interest and sinking fund upon which amounted to 252,000l. The sum to be raised by the bill before the house was something more than 100,000l. as part of the ways and means for defraying the charge alluded to; as the Assessed Taxes were to be collected from the 5th of April it was desirable, however, small as the addition might be, to bring forward the proposition in time, so that the house might be aware of the extent of it. As he was on his legs he took occasion to state, that there was a clause in the bill for reducing the allowance of poundage to the collectors one fourth, by which there would be a saving to the public of fifteen thousand pounds.

Mr. Biddulph

was not satisfied with the explanation of the hon. gent. who had not communicated any thing but what the house knew before. Parliament was a great council of finance to the government, and ought to be constitutionably consulted upon all subjects of new taxes. It was from a conviction, that so far as related to the 252,000l. the annual charge upon the funded exchequer bills, no new taxes were necessary, as he could shew, and on that account he should oppose the further progress of the bill.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

was not sensible of any unconstitutional circumstance connected with this measure. If the hon. gent. believed that he could point out a mode of providing for the payment of the interest of the addition to the public debt, without new taxes, that was a sufficient reason for his taking the course he adopted, or preferring his own suggestion. But the house must expect that the hon.*gent. should state his proposition before it would interfere with the progress of the measure. It was desirable, if the bill was to pass in the present session, that it should be passed with all convenient expedition. When the bill should go into the committee, the hon. gent. would have an opportunity of making any suggestion that occurred to him upon it. But the house would not interrupt the progress of the bill upon the bare assertion of any hon. member, that there was a something preferable to the bill, which, upon another occasion, he would state to the house.

Mr. Tierney

observed, that the house had not been called upon, on this occasion, to vote new taxes. The notice referred merely to regulation. As the right hon. gent. had before voted regulations under the pretence of duty, he now voted duties under the pretence of regulation. He would not say that this was absolutely smuggling the measure, but certainly the, proper course had not been taken. His majesty's speech had congratulated the house that a mode had been discovered by which the public service could be carried on without any additional taxes; and yet the right hon. gent. had proposed a new and heavy tax, without notice of his intention in that particular, without laying any ground for it, and without having brought forward the budget in the usual way. He merely disputed the regularity at present, but, whatever mode might ultimately turn out to be the proper one, he thought there were good reasons for delaying the progress of the bill.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

said, that the design of the bill was to regulate the collection of these taxes, to lower the rates in some cases, and raise them in others, and he saw no objection to the mode that had been adopted. Sufficient time would be given to examine it when it came in the committee.

Dr. Laurence

observed, that the objection was to the principle, and not to the specific bill. Money was to be raised answer a new charge on the consolidated fund, without any statement in the committee of ways and means that it was for that object. The whole that was wanted for the year ought to be brought under the review of the house at once, in order that it might judge whether any, and what taxes were necessary.

Mr. Rose

said, that the great principle was, not to allow the ways and means to exceed the supply, and this principle we not violated in the present instance. The consolidation act went a great deal further than this bill, and yet no objection had been made to it.

Mr. Whitbread

observed, that the notice which had been given of the design to lay this duty was not at all sufficient, even in point of fairness to those who were to be subject to it. There was certainly no occasion for any particular haste, in providing for the interest of the four millions, considering the flourishing state of the consolidate fund, as stated by the gentlemen on the other side. As to the consolidation act, he recollected that there had been a great outcry among the public that taxation was carried on under cover of consolidation This bill was less extensive in its operation, but both were liable to strong objecjections. No injury would result from delaying this bill.—The Bill was then rear a second time.