§ Lord Henry Petty,pursuant to notice, rose to state the terms of the Loan, and to recapitulate the Supplies and Ways and Means of the year. As an opportunity had already been afforded him, from the nature of the Plan of Finance, which, on a former occasion, he had opened to the house, of adverting in a detailed view to the extent of the supplies and ways and means of the year, he did not feel it then necessary for him to go at large into the statements he had formerly submitted to the house. But, as the loan had since been negociated, and as the time that had elapsed, enabled him to make the several statements with more accuracy than in the first instance he might have done, he hoped for the indulgence of the committee, whilst he shortly recapitulated the several branches of the supply and ways and means of the year; after which he proposed to state the terms upon which the contract for the loan of the year had been concluded, and then to explain what part of the Ways and Means of the year would be permanent:
Navy, exclusive of 422,500l. Sea Ordnance 16,997,837 Army, Great Britain £10,202,968 Ireland 3,445,130 Making together 13,648,098 Barracks, Great Britain £506,237 Ireland 469,450 Together 975,687 Commissary-General's Department 841,526 Making altogether for the different branches of the Army Expenditure £.15,465,311 Extraordinaries, Great Britain £.2,950,000 Ireland 600,000 Together 3,550,000 Excess of Extraordinaries this year 793,710 Making the Total Army Charge 19,809,021 Ordnance, including 422,500l. for Sea Ordnance for Great Britain 3,264,469 Ireland 479,246 Making together 3,743,715 Miscellaneous Services for Great Britain 1,200,000 Ireland 660,000 Vote of Credit 3,000,000 The noble lord observed, that there was an excess in the extraordinaries, of 793,710l. this year, which he had not been aware of 1076 when he had submitted his former statements to the house; but, in consequence of the deduction of the expenditure of the commissary-general's department from the extraordinaries, the sum voted this year was less than the sum voted last year, and he had the satisfaction to state that his former estimate would cover the future extraordinary expenditure. It was proposed to make good the advance that had been made to the king of Prussia, of a sum of 80,000l. out of the vote of credit, and also to pay a subsidy of 230,000l. to the king of Sweden, in pursuance of existing treaties. An advance was also to be made to the emperor of Russia, of 500,000l. out of the vote of credit. These were all the subsidies that he was then aware of as necessary to be paid, and at all events he had no doubt that the vote of credit of 3,000,000l. would be sufficient to cover what might accrue in the present year.
The apportionment of the Votes of Credit was, for Great Britain 2,800,000 For Ireland 200,000 Together £.3,000,000 The whole of the joint charges as he had stated, would be 45,396,575 To which was to be added Interest of Exchequer Bills 1,200,000 Loyalty Loan to be paid off 350,000 Deficiency of Malt Tax, 1805 200,000 Which made the Total Charge 47,046,575 Deduct 2–17ths for Ireland 5,545,677 Remains to be defrayed by Great Britain 41,500,898 He had next to state the Ways and Means by which these supplies were to be covered;—
Land and Malt £.2,750,000 Surplus of Consolidated Fund 3,500,000 War Taxes this year 19,800,000 Lottery 320,000 Vote of Credit 3,000,000 Loan 12,200,000 Surplus of Ways and Means, 1805 171,185 Making a Total of £.41,671,185 Excess over Supples 170,286 He had stated the Loan as a part of the Ways and Means of the year, and he had next to inform the committee of the terms upon which that loan had been contracted for; a duty which he should perform with satisfaction, from the advantageous terms upon which it had been negociated. The terms of the loan were for every 100l. subscribed,
Three per Cent. Reduced £.70 0 0 Three per Cent. Consols 70 0 0 Navy Five per Cents 10 12 0 Being at an Interest of 4 14 7 The committee would be sensible of the advantageous nature of this contract for 1077 the public, by calling to mind the terms upon which last year's loan had been negociated; terms that were then considered advantageous. The loan of last year had been negociated at an interest of 4l. 19s. 7d. for every 100l.; so that the public gained 5s. per cent. on the present loan.—Having stated the several items of Supply and Ways and Means, and explained to the house the terms of the loan, he should think he had fulfilled his duty if he had not thought it necessary to add another statement, to shew, that, notwithstanding the excess of the extraordinaries, the sum of 32 millions would be sufficient for the expenditure of the year, and for future expenditure, exclusive of subsidies and extraordinaries arising from the rise of the price of articles of stores, &c. He wished to put the committee in possession of the grounds upon which he supposed that the Ways and Means, offered by 32 millions, would be sufficient to cover the expenditure, with the exceptions he had stated. This he should shew, by deducting from the supplies all that was due on arrears, all that was due on subsidies, and the excess of extraordinaries, in which case there would remain, as he conceived, sufficient to provide for the same expenditure as in the present year; and also, by deducting all of the Ways and Means of the present year that was extraordinary, and not available for a future year. The noble lord then entered into a statement to shew, that by a deduction of the supplies that were extraordinary in the votes of the present year, such as the payment of the Loyalty Loan, the subsidies to the emperor of Russia, to the king of Sweden, and to the king of Prussia, the remainder of the sum voted on credit, and the excess of the extraordinaries of the present year, the supplies to be prospectively to be raised would be reduced from the supplies of the present year, viz. 41,600,898l. to 38,100,130l. He was not aware that it was necessary for him to say any thing further on the subject; and he should therefore move the first resolution.—On the question being put.
Mr. Rosewished to call the attention of the house to the statement of the noble lord. The noble lord had excluded from his consideration, in the first formation of his plan any estimate founded upon the subsidies that might be necessary, and yet scarcely a month had elapsed, when the noble lord came forward with a provision for subsidies to the amount of nearly one 1078 million. He asked, therefore, whether it was not a fallacy to leave out an item of expenditure, which followed so closely on the noble lord's first statement in arranging any financial plan for the future. He could not conceive how he could have overlooked the excess of the extraordinaries of the present year, as he admitted, at the time of bringing forward his first statement. It could not have been for want of having the accounts made up, for that was regularly done in the offices. He knew of no way in Which such an excess could arise, except from the arrival of bills from abroad, as all the bills that had already arrived must have been entered in the offices, at the time the noble lord brought forward his plan. Was the house to suppose, that in the space of six months an excess of nearly 800,000l. had accrued in the extraordinary expenditure? He had always been of opinion, that the noble lord's supposition, that 32 millions would be sufficient prospectively for the country, was totally fallacious, and he had, therefore, recommended to the noble lord to assume a larger expenditure for the purpose of guarding against a failure in his statements.
§ Lord H. Pettyreplied by appealing to every gentleman who bad heard him, whether he had not distinctly excepted extraordinary expenditure by subsidies, and produced by a bill of stores and other articles, from his estimate of 32 millions? He wished again to set himself right with the right hon. gent. and the house on this point. The expenditure of the present year afforded the only comparatively certain data whereon to found any calculation of the prospective expenditure of the country. The expenditure in subsidies could not be anticipated, and therefore ought not to have been taken into any certain calculation.
§ Sir T. Turtonobserved, that the noble lord had kindled with the warmth of a generous mind at the charge of fallacy; but this was not meant in any individious sense. The event had proved, that from some cause or other the expenditure could not be confined to 32 millions. If the idea, therefore, had gone out among the public, that this criterion was correct, there was, no doubt, a fallacy with respect to the public. He asked, whether the 500,000l. subsidy to Russia was in consequence of the treaty of 1805, or any new treaty ? [Mr. Vansittart intimated that it was in consequence of the old treaty.] Then he would 1079 wish to know whether the 80,000l. to Prussia was the whole that was intended to be given, or whether it was the commencement of something further? If it was only a previous step to something further, he meant to propose a motion on that subject. He thought that subsidies to Prussia in the present state of that country would be wasting money. It would produce no good whatever: the fortresses, for the preservation of which this 80,000l. had been given, had been captured, and there were little hopes that any assistance of this sort would be of service.
Mr. Vansittartreplied, that it was to wind up the account of former years. He entered into a short explanation of the subject before the committee; after which the resolutions were agreed to, and the house having been resumed, the report was ordered to be received to-morrow.