HC Deb 13 August 1807 vol 9 cc1218-23

When strangers were readmitted,

Mr. Windham

was on his legs, and stating that he meant to propose some Resolutions relative to the Army, merely expressing facts as they appeared by the papers on the table. He understood the noble lord had some resolutions to propose also, but they consisted of reasoning instead of fact. He did not like this reasoning in Resolutions. It was like turning the statutes into verse, or like turning the speeches of the noble lord into rhyme to amuse the house at 5 o'clock in the morning.—After some conversation between Mr. Windham, lord Castlereagh, and the Speaker, it was agreed that the Resolutions of each should be put separately, and the debate on them adjourned to this day se'nnight. They were as follow.

Mr. Windham's Propositions.

I.—That the effective strength of the army was,

Regulars. Militia. Total
On the 1st of March 1807 173,600. 75,182. 248,782.
On the 1st of March 1807 181,856. 77,211. 259,067.
A reduction having in the mean time taken place, of a local corps of 3,000 men and upwards, in the island of Ceylon.

II.—That the provisions of certain acts of parliament passed during the year 1806, and having in view the better ordering of the army, and the improvement of the condition of non-commissioned officers and soldiers, took effect from the 24th of June in the said year.

III.—That from the 1st of July following, the number of recruits raised for the regular army (exclusive of those raised for foreign and colonial corps, and 650 men for a regiment commanded by the hon. col. Dillon) was,

In the first period of three months, ending on the 1st of October 1806 2,770 being at the rate per annum of 11,080.
In the 2d period, ending on the 1st of January 1807 3,496 13,934.
In the 3d period, ending on the 1st of April 1807 5,335 21,340.
In the 4th period, ending on the 1st of July 1807 6,078 24,312.

IV.—That on the 25th of October 1806, the bounty to recruits was reduced,

For the Cavalry, from £. 13. 8. to 8. 3.
For the Infantry 16. 16. — 11. 11.

V.—That the number of recruits raised for the regular army in Great Britain and Ireland, according to the adjutant-general's returns, was, in the first six months of

By ordinary Recruiting: Additional Force: Total:
1805 6,736. 4,187. 10,923.
1806 4,949. 4,834. 10,783.
1807 11,413. 11,413.

VI.—That, amongst the numbers raised in the first six months of 1805, are included 3,089 raised by officers recruiting for rank.

VII.—That the men raised under the Additional Force act were for home service only, and might be of any height not less than five feet two inches, and of any age between 18 and 45.

VIII.—That in the regular army no man could be received but between the ages of 18 and 30, and of a height not less than 5 feet 4 inches; the standard for men not entering for general service, but choosing their own regiments, being 5 feet 5 inches, and for the guards. and cavalry, still higher.

IX.—That by recruits raised by ordinary recruiting, are meant men raised either at the head quarters of regiments, or by the recruiting districts late under the superintendence of the inspector-general.

X.—That according to the war-office return of recruits for whom bounty has been drawn as raised at the head quarters of regiments in Great Britain, and the inspector-general's return of the numbers raised by the recruiting districts, the produce of the ordinary recruiting was, during the first six mouths of

At Head Quarters of Regiments in Gt. Britain: Recruiting Districts in Gt. Britain: By Do in Ireland: Total:
1805 1,470. 2,327. 912. 4,709.
1806 1,084. 1,957. 953. 3,994.
1807 2,536. 6,115. 2,396. 11,047.

XI.—That the number men who volunteered from limited to unlimited service was, during six months

Ending 1 July 1805 2,225.
1 Jan. 1806 2,863.
1 July 1806 2,413.
1 Jan. 1807 7,081.

XII.—That the number of men who deserted from the army at home was, during the first six months of

In Great Britain: In Ireland:
1805 1 in 202. 1 in 204.
1806 1 in 217. 1 in 235.
1807 1 in 293. 1 in 205.

XIII.—That the number of men who deserted from the recruiting districts was, during the first six months of

1805 1 in 10.
1806 1 in 10.
1807 1 in 12.

Lord Castlereagh's Propositions.

I.—That the increase of 8,256 men, as stated, in the regular army, between March 1806 and March 1807, has been produced by 2,908 men received from the Irish militia, and 3,542 under the Additional Force act.—Total 6,450 men;—without which aids (deducting our losses in Egypt and South America, viz. 2,185 men, which appear in the effectives of the army on the 1st of March 1807) the army would have decreased, under the regulations established in June 1806, in the number of 379 men.—That the regular army has been progressively increasing, previous to the establishment of the new system of levying men, as follows; the amount being,

On the 1st of July 1804 141,740.
Do. 1805 162,997.
Do. 1806 175,997.

III. A.—That the number of recruits raised quarterly for the regular army, between the 1st of March 1805, and 1st of March 1806, when the repeal of the Additional Force act was determined on, was (exclusive of foreign and colonial levies, and of men transferred from the militia) as follows;

Number Rate
raised. per Ann.
1st Qr. ending July 1, 1805 4,865. 19,460.
2d Qr. ending Dec. 1, 1805 4,252. 17,004.
3d Qr. ending Jan. 1, 1806 4,790. 19,160.
4th Qr. ending Apl. 1, 1806. 6,096. 24,384.

III. B.—That the number of men raised as above, between the 1st of April 1805 and the 1st of April 1806, was 20,003; the number between July 1806 and July 1807, 17,689, being 2,314 less than in the former year; whereas the number of boys included in the 17,689, exceeded by 1,076 the number included in the 20,003, the preceding year's produce.

III. c.—That the number of men obtained for regular service, including men transferred from the militia (and exclusive of foreign and colonial levies) was, between July 1805 and July 1806, 33,693 men; between July 1806 and July 1807, 20,681, being 13,012 men less than in the preceding year, exclusive of the services of the men raised in the latter years being determinable in seven or ten year, according to the terms of their enlistment.

III. D.—That whilst the number of men levied in the latter year was less than in the former, as stated in the preceding Resolutions, an annual additional charge of 450,000l. in increased pay and pensions to the army has been incurred, as an encouragement to induce men to enlist, being at the rate of about 25l. per man; on the number of men raised within the year; and which expence must be here after largely increased, in proportion as the pensions on 14 and 21 years service come into operation.

III. E.—That during the former year the recruiting parties did not exceed in number 405; that in the latter year they had been increased to 1,113, exclusive of above 400 extra recruiting officers; and from the 8th of Dec. 1806, 54 second battalions have been recruiting, under an intimation, that if they did not raise 400 men each in 6 months, the battalions would be then reduced, and the officers placed on half-pay; which extraordinary increase of the number of recruiting parties must be considered not only as highly prejudicial to the discipline and efficiency of the army, but as so much expence incurred for the levy of men, as distinguished from the performance of regimental duty.

III. F.—That whilst the number of men raised as above for the regular service, has in the latter year been reduced, the proportion of desertions in the army serving at home has been rather increased; the proportion being, in the five successive half-yearly periods, as follows;

Desertions in the Army at Home:
Jan. 1805 to July 1805 1 in 194.
July 1805 to Jan. 1806 1 in 152.
Jan. 1806 to July 1806 1 in 275.
July 1806 to Jan. 1807 1 in 243.
Jan. 1807 to July 1807 1 in 236.

IV.—That the expence of levy money for general service has been reduced—for cavalry, from 19l. to 15l. 4s. 6d. and for infantry, from 22l. 8s. 0d. to 18l. 12s. 6d. But the term of service has also been reduced, from service for life to service for ten and seven years, which supposes two additional periods of enlistment, and consequently two additional bounties in the course of a service of 21 years, exclusive of the additional pay and pensions above referred to.

VI.—That among the number raised in the first six months of 1807, being 11,413 men, 8,035 have been raised by the 54 second battalions; that is, by officers recruiting to avoid reduction.

VII. and VIII.—That, with the exception of 6,242 men transferred to garrison battalions, all men raised under the Army of Reserve and Additional Force acts have been since enlisted into the line, being of the age and height required by his majesty's regulations; and amongst the men so transferred to garrison battalions, are included all men who did not choose to enter for general service, without reference to age or height.

XI.—That the men volunteering from limited to unlimited service, from 1st July 1806, to 1st January 1807, received ten guineas bounty for only extending their service from local to general service; whereas before that period (the bounty being the same) the men transferring themselves to the line, exchanged their service, not only from home to foreign service, but from service limited in point of time to service for life; and the men in the latter period, who refused to transfer their services, were ordered to be drafted into garrison battalions.

TRANSPORTS.—I. That the transports at home on the first of March 1806, consisted of 380 ships, and 87,717 tons; of which 50 ships and 16,894 tons were fitted for foreign service, and including tonnage for 1,785 horses.—That the transports at home, on the 24th of March 1807, were 73 ships, and 16,468 tons, of which only 25 ships and 7,807 tons were fitted for foreign service; there being an excess of 307 ships and 71,249 tons at the former period, compared with the latter; and of 25 ships and 9,087 tons fitted for foreign service; in the latter period, the provision was only for 148 horses.

II.—That the above provision of tonnage on the 24th of March 1807, of 73 ships and 16, 468 tons, would have been further re- duced under the orders of the treasury of the 22d of January 1807, in the amount of 29 ships and 8,586 tons, had not the full execution of the above orders been prevented by the contracts of 17 being such as to prevent their being paid off, and by nine being under quarantine, having returned on the 20th of March preceding from the Mediterranean.

III.—That the transports on home service, on the 8th of August 1807, consisted of 401 ships and 82,143 tons; of which 67 ships and 20,289 tons were fitted for foreign service, including also a provision for 4,089 horses.