§ Mr. Whitbreadrose. He observed, that this country being at present surrounded by the most gloomy prospects which perhaps ever offered to any nation, events were not unlikely to occur which might induce irremediable distress, if the utmost vigour and vigilance were not employed by all the departments of the state to avert the evils that menaced us. In such a crisis, of course, he deprecated the prorogation of parliament; pregnant, as the crisis was, with events which might render it peculiarly desirable for prudent ministers to resort to parliament for advice. He hoped, therefore, it was not intended by ministers to advise his majesty to prorogue parliament on Friday next, as rumour stated. Among the causes of gloom and alarm which this country at present witnessed, the hon. gent. noticed the state of our relations with a particular power—he meant Turkey; with regard to which, that house and the country were really unable precisely to decide whether we were at peace, or whether we were at war. An ambassador had been appointed to that state, and yet what was the nature of our connexion with it, or our future prospect regarding it, was quite uncertain. But he did not propose to press any embarrassing questions upon his majesty's ministers as to this topic. There were, however, other points upon which he was anxious, in common with the country at large, to receive all the information which ministers could consistently afford. The first and most important was with respect to the Russian treaty. In that treaty he observed an article specifically referring to the mediation of Russia between this country and France. Now, he wished to know whether any direct communication had been received from the court of Petersburgh, in consequence of this article? At the same time, he could not help observing, that there was something in the present juncture peculiarly favourable for the restoration of peace upon honourable terms, if ministers dexterously availed themselves of it. Thinking so, he strongly recommended ministers to accept the proposal of negociation; and, if they would enter upon it in the spirit of peace, he had no doubt that it would terminate in the establishment of that invaluable blessing; but if ministers proceeded upon a different spirit, he had serious fears that it would lead to great and permanent 1170 calamity.—The next point upon which the hon. gent. felt extremely anxious for information, was with regard to America: whether communication had been made by the American government upon the subject of a recent event on the American coast; and whether any steps had been taken by ministers in consequence of such communication? This was a question with regard to which the country felt extremely interested, and particularly as to the probable result. These were the two important points upon which he thought it his duty to apply to ministers for information, not only for the satisfaction of that house, but of the country. But with regard to the proposed prorogation, the hon. gent. called the attention of ministers to other important considerations, which appeared to him strongly to forbid that proceeding so early as was expected. According to the conditions of the Prussian treaty, it was stipulated that our commerce should be excluded from all the ports subject to that power, and it was understood that, in consequence of that stipulation, a large expedition had been sent out, with an object in view which exposed us to the liability of having a new enemy. The probability even of such an event ought, in his opinion, strongly to impress upon the minds of ministers, the impropriety of proroguing parliament, particularly as that probability must, in the nature of things, be so soon determined. While the result of such a proceeding was suspended, and with a just impression of the consequences, should the result be unfavourable, it would obviously be wise in any ministers to keep parliament together, in order that they might occasionally resort to the aid of its counsel. But, there were many other reasons which should impress this advice upon ministers. Among others, the incidents which might arise either out of a negociation for peace, or a continuance of war—the consequences which might result from the state of our present relations with America, and from the nature of our prospects with other powers; all of which it might be proper and necessary immediately to communicate to parliament, enforced time propriety of postponing the prorogation. But another, and a forcible reason for such postponement, was suggested by the present alarming situation of our West-India trade, through which we were likely to have so considerable a portion of our revenue cut off, and with regard to which, immediate 1171 proceedings ought of course to be taken by parliament. Under all these circumstances, the hon. gent. expressed his hope and wish, that ministers would not attempt to counsel his majesty to prorogue the parliament so soon as was reported.
Mr. Canningrose, and spoke to the following effect:—I do not rise, sir, for the purpose of offering any argument to justify the exercise of his majesty's prerogative, with regard to the prorogation of parliament, or to state the reasons which may influence his servants in the counsels which they may deem it advisable to offer upon such a subject. Any attempt at that sort of justification is, according to my judgement, in the present instance, totally unnecessary. But I rise to make such replies to the hon. member's questions, as I feel consistent with my public duty; and I am happy that I do feel enabled to afford a full answer upon those points to which the hon. gent. appears to attach the most importance. First, then, as to Russia; the hon. gent.'s interrogatory is—whether any direct communication has been received from the court of St. Petersburgh, conformably to a certain article in the treaty recently concluded between that country and France? Undoubtedly, a direct communication has been received from the Russian court, by his majesty's government, containing an offer of mediation between this country and France. But, I think it right, at the same time to state that this communication was unaccompanied by any copy of the treaty lately concluded, or any of its conditions—but specifically not the article alluded to by the hon member. This communication was received on the 2d of this month, and at that time his majesty's ministers had no knowledge whatever of the terms of the Russian treaty; but least of all of a certain article in that treaty. Nor had they, indeed, any intelligence upon the subject, until they received it through the same medium as that which conveyed it to the public, namely, a French newspaper. Under these circumstances, ministers received the communication I have mentioned from Russia, and to that communication; they returned, what in such a state of things must have been expected, only a conditional answer. What the nature of that answer was, the hon. gent. will not ask me to state; but I can assure him, that the answer of ministers was given in the most perfect ignorance of the Russian treaty, and particularly of the article alluded to by the hon. gent.—The 1172 next interrogatory of the hon. gent. alluded to America: now, upon this point, I can have no difficulty in communicating to the house and to the public, the fullest information in my power; and I am peculiarly glad of the opportunity which the hon. gent. has afforded me of so doing. But, before I enter into the transaction to which the hon. member's question more particularly refers, I beg to state, that any circumstances which may have occurred with regard to America, can, in no degree, have arisen out of the conduct of his present ministers. For this reason, that finding upon their accession to office, certain relations subsisting between this country and America—finding a treaty pending, though not yet ratified, and the public faith of this country solemnly pledged—they felt no duty so sacred.—they saw no line so clear, as not to interfere with the course of these relations; but to proceed according to the impulse given by their predecessors. Whatever our own feelings were upon the merits of the measure, we felt it our duty, and formed our resolution, to give the fullest effect to the stipulations of the treaty which our predecessors had concluded; such, in fact, both collectively and individually, was our determined purpose. Under these considerations, I can assure the house that no alteration whatever was made in the course pursued by our predecessors—nothing whatever was done that could bear on their treaty, or the objects they had in view. No new instructions whatever were sent to our minister at the American court; and as to our naval force off the American coast, they had precisely the same orders as those which prevailed under our predecessors. Upon the conduct of that force, I cannot as yet attempt to pronounce an opinion. Until a recent transaction shall be enquired into, and the fullest and most accurate examination shall take place, it would be premature to decide upon it. But, whatever the conduct of this naval force, or the nature of this particular transaction may have been, the present ministers are no more responsible for it than as the representatives of the government. In the present stage of the business, I have nothing more to say upon this question but to add, that the British government have not received, either through its minister at the American court, or through the American ambassador here, any official communication whatever relative to the transaction alluded to by the hon. gent. 1173 Ministers received the first authentic account of this affair through the American newspapers, transmitted by our minister, which contained the president's proclamation, and in consequence of this publication I thought it my duty, no later than this day, to enquire of the American ambassador, whether he had any official communication from his government to make upon the subject; but was answered in the negative. In such circumstances, of course, ministers have no communication to make to parliament on this topic.—Upon these two points, with regard to which the hon. gent. professed to be particularly anxious, I have endeavoured to answer as fully and satisfactorily as my duty enabled me to do. With respect to the other points to which the hon. gent. referred, the house must feel that it would be impossible for me, consistently, to state any thing with regard to the measures which he supposes ministers to have taken in consequence of the Prussian Treaty with France, or as to the object of the expedition which government has lately sent out; particularly as no intelligence has as yet been received from that expedition. Upon another subject of the hon. gent.'s allusion, I mean Turkey, I shall only repeat the words of his majesty's speech at the commencement of the session, namely, "that his majesty has taken such measures, as may best enable him to take advantage of any favourable opportunity for bringing the hostilities in which he is engaged against the Sublime Porte, to a conclusion, consistent with his majesty's honour and the interests of his ally."—The right hon. gent. observed, that he had communicated as fully upon all the points adverted to by the hon. gent. as he was enabled to do consistently with his duty. Having no official communication to make to parliament; seeing no probability of an event that should render an immediate communication with parliament necessary, and considering that the public business was over, he could not conceive the reason of acceding to a principle so new, as that of continuing the attendance of members—of preventing a prorogation, particularly at the present season, when, according to the ordinary practice of parliament, his majesty exercised his unquestionable prerogative in allowing to both houses a certain recess.
§ Mr. Whitbreadexpressed himself obliged to the right hon. secretary for the candour with which he had answered the 1174 questions he had thought it his duty to ask, but disclaimed any intention to interrogate the right hon. gent. as to those points, which he could not be consistently expected to answer—he meant particularly with respect to the destination of the expedition. With regard to his majesty's prerogative to prorogue parliament, he had no intention whatever to question it. But at the same time he must repeat, that the exercise of it in this instance, under the circumstances which he had stated, would be extremely ill advised.—The motion, that the house should at its rising adjourn till Thursday, was then agreed to.