HC Deb 23 April 1807 vol 9 cc532-7
Mr. Sheridan

moved the second reading of the Journeymen Calico Printers' Bill.

Sir Robert Peele

said, that although, on account of his ill health, he had been given leave to absent himself from his duty in parliament, yet he should feel great self-reproach, if he should allow a bill so mischievous as he conceived this to be, to pass, without giving it his decided opposition. He was himself a friend to the Journeymen Calico Printers, and he conceived that he and the other Master-Printers had done them more service than they would ever receive from the speeches of the right hon. gent. (Mr. Sheridan). The Journeymen in their first demand of limiting the number of apprentices, seemed to act upon the principle, that they were able by combination to give the law to the masters. This scheme, however failed, and only occasioned the masters to bring many new hands into the trade. Then were many masters who seriously though of removing themselves and their capitals to some other country, where their property would be better protected, and their trade be more free from restriction; for a man of property could never bear the idea of receiving the law, in every instance, from his journeymen. If it could be proved that this bill would be for the advantage of the journeymen, he should not oppose it, as he considered that the interests of the greater number should be attended to in preference to the interests of the few; but he was convinced, that a bill like the present would be injurious to the whole trade, and consequently to the journeymen. He concluded by moving, that it be read a second time on this day three months.

Mr. D. Giddy

supported this motion. He considered that in the present state of society, it was not so much the tyranny of kings and great men that was to be apprehended, as the tyranny of the many over the few. He considered that nothing was more dangerous than combinations among journeymen. If the agricultural labourers were to combine in a similar manner, and demand for their labour more than their fair proportion of the land, the country must rapidly fall to ruin.

Mr. Jacob

began by observing, that in 1791, this country only exported to the value of one million annually in cotton goods; but, now, in sixteen years after that period, the quantity exported amounted to 9,750,000l., being more than one third of the whole amount of our exports. This great increase was owing to the skill and talents of the Calico Printers. In the infancy of this trade, some degree of philosophy was necessary, and a considerable knowledge of chemistry; but now, by the division of labour, the business of a calico printer did not require more skill than any other handicraft trade, and therefore the present race of calico printers were not entitled to better wages than most other mechanics. It was allowed, that a boy of 14 could, in a few months, learn the whole business, and yet the average wages were 25s. a week, although the workmen lived for the most part in the Northern counties, where those wages would go much farther than they would in a Southern county. He did not see that the Journeymen Calico printers had any serious subject of complaint, and therefore he should oppose the present bill.

Mr. P. Moore

declared that the anxious wish of the committee was, that the masters and journeymen should regulate the matter among themselves, without bringing it before parliament. The complaint of the journeymen was this; that a large number of loyal, dutiful, and faithful subjects were now without employment and without bread, in consequence of the grievances of which they complained. He conceived it the first duty of government to see that the subjects of the realm had bread. He felt a good deal for the rights of journeymen; his constituents were either journeymen, or had been journeymen, and he had, therefore, considered that kind of right which was derived from having served an apprenticeship. He considered, that from the system of apprenticeships was derived, not only the superior skill of our workmen in every department, but a great part of the practical morality of the British nation. He admitted, that on account of the division of labour, a boy could be taught to do the business in a very short time, as well as a journeyman. The consequence was, that as soon as the boy was out of his apprenticeship he also found himself out of bread. It was therefore in this branch of trade, more than in any other, that some regulations were wanting to insure a subsistence to the journeymen.

Mr. Henry

Erskine considered, that whatever might be the grievances of the journeymen, the present bill would not afford the remedy. It was against the first principles of civil liberty, as well as against all the commercial maxims which had hitherto been received. The first clause of it was to prevent masters from taking more than a certain number of apprentices. This was a regulation, which had never before been demanded from parliament. Every man had an undoubted right to teach his trade to as many people as he chose. He thought the cry against the numbers coming into the trade was as ridiculous as if he or others, old journeymen in the profession of the law, should come to parliament to complain of the number of young men of talents that were educating for that profession, and beg that the house would shut the door against them, for fear they should interfere with the old practitioners. As to the wages given he thought that that, as well as the price of the article, would of themselves find their level. He therefore was decidedly in opposition to the bill.

Mr. Sheridan

defended the bill. He said it would have been well if his hon. and learned friend (Mr. H.Erskine) had con- descended to read the report of the commitee upon which this bill was founded, before he exercised so much of his ingenuity in condemning it. If he had read that report, he would have found, that, so far from being a measure for the encouragement of combinations amongst the journeymen calico-printers, it was one for the relief and protection of the industrious and oppressed. His hon. and learned friend had declared, that, whatever was the, nature of the disorder complained of, he would not give this bill as a cure, because he considered it absolute poison. But he (Mr. S.) believed it was the practice of all regular bred physicians to consult a. little the nature of the disorder, before they rejected one remedy to prescribe another; and, in this case, he certainly felt that he had the advantage of his hon. and learned friend. He intreated, however, that the house, before it should reject the present bill, would first condescend to read the report of its committee, which it was always customary for the house to respect, and not to libel or stultify that report, without ever once reading or considering the evidence upon which it was founded. Before the house consented to reject this bill, he begged they would consider, that the necessary consequence must be inconsistency with their own justice, to repeal the act of the 5th of Elizabeth, by which every other trade in the kingdom, except that of the calico-printers was regulated, and protected. But before that house would agree to such a repeal, he was sure they would pause very deliberately, and consult their own reflections upon the necessary consequences to the manufactures of the country. What was the case of the complainants in this instance? For a series of successive years had they been mendicant suppliants at the bar of that house, offering petition after petition, praying relief but in vain. The moment, however, they found their petition entertained, and felt any ground of hope that their grievances would be fairly considered, all combination ceased and their reliance for redress was entirely founded upon the justice and liberality of parliament. What was their complaint? Why, that after having served seven years to a business confessedly injurious to their health, and which rendered them unfit for any other occupation, they were to be turned loose upon the world, supplanted in their employments by whole legions of apprentices, at 12 or 14 years of age, for the wages of 4s., 6s., or 8s. per week, instead of 25s., the usual average of the jour[...]neyman, by whose previous skill and ingenuity the operations of the manufacture were so amplified that children could do the work as well as, journeymen. And what was the alternative proposed to those unfortunate men? To be satisfied with the average wages of 9s. per week, usually paid to common daily labourers throughout their districts, or left to become soldiers or sailors, occupations for which their state of body, after devoting 7 years to an unwholesome business, rendered them totally unfit. Would the house consent to a proposition so monstrous, as that those young men, after having devoted 7 years to learn a trade, to the ruin of their health, by which their industry had, so eminently contributed to the wealth of their masters and their country, should be deprived of all employment, and be turned loose upon society, as burthens to the charity, or freebooters upon the property of their neighbourhood? He never was a proselyte to the doctrines of Adam Smith upon this subject. It was the wisest policy of a nation to provide employment for the matured vigour of its population; and those manfacturers, who derived immense fortunes by the early industry of those journeymen, would ill deserve the encouragement of the legislature and of the state, if they were ready to sacrifice the comforts of their men to their own avarice, and consign them to beggary the moment they became entitled to receive the wages of journeymen. He instanced one particular house, which entertained above 50 apprentices, and only 2 journeymen; and he begged to ask how many thousands of artisans must be devoted to famine, if this system was to become general. His hon. and learned friend had compared the state of the bar to that of the calico-printers, and said, what might be very true, that many of the members of that learned profession were much distressed. It might be so, and was to be lamented. But, if it were possible, by the operations of that machinery, philosophy, or chemistry, which had been so learnedly spoken of that night, so to simplify the business of the bar, as to render it practicable to little boys and girls at 12 or 14, he believed there would be more clamour from the gentlemen of the long robe in Westminster Hall, than from all the combining manufacturers of Lancashire put together. The right hon. gent. mentioned some other instances of oppression from the masters to their apprentices, and their illegal modes of securing their services, sometimes for 9 or 10 years, by a bond from the parent instead of a stamped indenture. He concluded by supporting the bill, and declaring, at the same time, that he disclaimed all countenance to combination; that he should belie the uniform tenor of his whole political life, if, while he had a seat in that house, the cause of the weak should want an advocate against the strong, who revelled in wealth and luxury upon the fruits of their hard industry.

Mr. Horner

opposed the bill as did Mr. Dent; and the question being put for the second reading this day 3 months, it was carried without a division.

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