Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald rose ,pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a bill to alter and amend the mode of levying money by Grand Juries, in Ireland. He could now state, from the return on the table, that the enormous sum of half a million was raised by the grand juries, for bridges and cross-roads, exclusive of turnpike-roads, and the main lines of communication between the different parts of Ireland. This sum might not appear great compared with the revenue of England; but it was prodigious when compared with that of Ireland. The hon. gent. went on to state, that a land-tax would be an unpopular measure in Ireland, and yet that country was in reality subject to a land-tax, raised in the most objectionable way. The poor in Ireland were, of necessity, obliged to have some land, and after, by extraordinary industry, raising subsistence out of it, they were obliged to pay their tythes, and then their Grand Jury Tax, which fell upon the poor occupants; while the rich proprietor, being absent, payed none of the tax as a proprietor. What he proposed, therefore, was, to follow up the analogy of the regulation adopted by his right hon. friend (sir J. Newport), who had exempted from the house tax those whose rents did not exceed 61. per annum. He intended also to propose some new regulations with respect to presentments and the 500 proper accounting for the money. He would bring in the bill this session, that it might be printed and considered by the grand juries during the summer assizes. It would thus come forward next session, after all the consideration that could be requisite. He did not mean to alter the system of levying money by Grand Juries, but to subject it to the most beneficial regulations. He could not conclude without stating another motive which had induced him to propose this measure. At this moment, he observed, when all the views of the late ministry in favour of Ireland had been defeated, when the hopes of all those who from honest motives supported the Union were blasted —when the Union was rendered merely nominal and barren, though there appeared no intention immediately to repeal it—when the present government was founded on an interdict against Ireland, and existed under a pledge to withhold from the royal ear the grievances and complaints of the unhappy people of that country; at such a moment as this, he hoped the house would concur with him in the opinion, that at least all the practical benefits ought to be conferred on Ireland which could possibly be obtained. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in a bill to alter and amend the mode of levying money by Grand Juries in Ireland.
The Chancellorof the Exchequer had no objection to the bill proposed by the hon. gent. The course of proceeding with respect to the bill, as suggested by the hon. gent., he thought altogether unexceptionable, he rose for the purpose of deprecating for himself, and those connected with him, the supposition of their being disposed to intercept the prayers of any part of his majesty's subjects in their way to the royal ear, or to the presence of parliament, however his sentiments might differ from those of the right hon. gent. on some subjects connected with a large portion of the people of Ireland. He thought it right also to offer himself to the house, lest, if he should have sat silent while the Union was represented as a barren and useless thing, as a thing, the continuance of which was problematical, and its dissolution a thing seriously contemplated, lest such things, suffered to pass uncontradicted, should give rise to false and dangerous opinions abroad. The interests of the two countries were now so intimately combined, that a dissolution of the Union could not be contemplated without involving most material injury to both, however some matters of detail might, in the opinion of some, 501 be yet remote from a satisfactory arrangement.
§ Mr. Parnelldefended his hon. friend who might well be warranted in doubting of the policy of the Union, when the Imperial parliament was made the scene of disseminating religions dissentions, instead of diffusing, as had been promised by the authors of the union, political rights, by the extinction of religious divisions.
§ Mr. Wilberforcehad listened with great satisfaction to the statements of the hon. mover, because he had thrown some light upon the situation of the Irish poor. He wished that the gentlemen from Ireland would always endeavour to enlighten the house with regard to the internal state of that country. This would be much more important with respect to the poor of that country than the discussion of any great political privileges. Dr. Mc. Nevin, one of the persons who had been engaged in the rebellion, had stated in answer to a question put to him, when examined before a committee of the Irish house of commons, that the peasantry would not give the value of the ink in the pen with which the clerk was writing, for emancipation. The real happiness of the people depended more on the nature of their connection with their landholders and tytheholders, than upon those privileges. One of the best effects which he hoped for from the Union was the additional light which it would enable us to procure with respect to the situation of the people of Ireland. If Irish gentlemen, and members of parliament, would study and point out measures, calculated to promote the internal comfort and prosperity of Ireland, they would do far more real service to their country, than by recriminating upon those who could not hazard the strong measures they might wish. Whatever difference of opinion there might be as to higher questions of policy, all, he trusted, would concur in endeavouring to promote the reformation of the abuses in that country; and with this view, he wished it to be considered, whether it might not be possible for the voluntary exertions of the great landholders themselves to correct these abuses?
Mr. Maurice Fitzgeraldbegged leave to give an accurate and entire statement of the circumstance to which the hon. gent. had just adverted. This he could do with the most perfect correctness, as he had been a member of the Irish Committee. The question asked was, "what value the great body of the Catholics attached to what was 502 called emancipation?" The answer was, as the hon. gent. had stated, that they did not understand it, and that they would not give the value of the ink in the pen with which the clerk was writing for it. This was, perhaps, true; but then this question was followed by another, viz. "what he thought would have been the effects of granting this emancipation?" The reply was, that there was nothing the rebel leaders dreaded so much; as it would have taken the peasantry out of their hands entirely, and completely destroyed their hopes of establishing a republic in Ireland. This was the real state of the case. The hon. gent. then proceeded to state, that in Voting for the Union, he had combatted his earliest prejudices and feelings, and supported it with a view to the security of all establishments, and the restoration of a firm and lasting tranquillity to Ireland. He had done so under direct pledges on this subject sanctioned by the greatest names, and he never would have concurred in it on any other terms. But now, when he saw the evils aggravated, and none of the expected good effects produced, he, speaking for himself only, declared, that the Union was barren and nominal, and that no great benefit could result from continuing it.—The motion was then put and carried.