HC Deb 05 April 1807 vol 48 cc498-505

(1) The Directors of the Company may, if they think fit, establish a Fund (in this Section referred to as the Fund) for the payment of pensions and retiring allowances or gratuities to old or disabled servants of the Company not entitled to be members of the Superannuation Fund established by the Company in pursuance of the powers conferred on them by "The Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway (New Works and Additional Powers) Act 1871," and for the purposes of the Fund five persons—the Chairman, the General Manager, the Secretary, the Chief Engineer, and the Chief Mechanical Engineer of the Company—shall be a committee for the purpose of preparing, and shall prepare, a scheme (in this Act referred to as the scheme) for the establishment of the Fund for the payment of pensions or retiring allowances or gratuities to the servants of the Company, being contributors to the Fund, or to the widows and children of such contributors, such contributors not being salaried officers of the Company or otherwise entitled to become members of the Superannuation Fund, and such committee may, by a majority of its members, determine in and by such scheme the following matters and things (that is to say):—

  1. (a) What class of servants of the Company, subject as aforesaid, shall be entitled to contribute to and participate in the benefits of the Fund, and what length of service shall entitle them so to participate;
  2. (b) What (if anything) shall disqualify any servant of the Company from becoming a contributor to the Fund and participating in the benefits thereof;
  3. (c) Under what circumstances and conditions, and to what extent, in what period and to what age, persons becoming members of the Fund shall be allowed to make back payments so as to entitle them to pensions or retiring allowance or gratuity;
  4. (d) Under what circumstances any person having been a contributor to the Fund shall cease to be entitled to participate in the benefits thereof;
  5. (e) What proportion (if any) of his contribution to the Fund any person having been but ceasing to be a contributor thereto shall be entitled to receive;
  6. (f) What proportion (if any) of the sums contributed by any person or by the Company to the Fund shall be payable to his representatives in the event of his dying before he becomes entitled to a pension or to a retiring allowance or gratuity;
  7. (g) The age at which, or other circumstances under which, any person shall become entitled to a pension or to a retiring allowance or gratuity;
  8. (h) The scale upon which pensions or allowances shall be calculated, and under what (if any) circumstances such scale may from time to time be revised;
  9. (i) The amount of payment, either weekly, fortnightly, or monthly which all servants of the Company becoming members of the Fund shall contribute to the Fund;
  10. (j) The future management and direction of the Fund, and the number, qualification and mode of appointment or election of a committee, in this Act called "the Managing Committee," in whom such management and direction shall be vested, and the remuneration of the members and officers of the managing committee;
  11. (k) The mode in which the persons by whom and the times at which the accounts 500 of the managing committee, or of their secretary or other officer shall be audited, and the manner in which contributors to the Fund and others shall have access to the accounts;
  12. (l) The securities on which the moneys received on account of the Fund shall be from time to time invested;
  13. (m) And generally all such other matters and things in relation to the Fund as the Committee appointed by this Act shall deem fit and proper to form part of and to be included in such scheme;
  14. (n) The persons to be benefited by the Fund may be divided into two or more classes, according to the amount of payment, or according to such other conditions as the managing committee shall determine, power being reserved by the scheme to remove any contributor from one class to another, provided that no such removal shall place the contributor in a worse position in respect to his past contributions than he would have occupied if the removal had not been made;
  15. (o) The managing committee may from time to time, with the consent of the Directors of the Company, modify the rules and regulations of the Fund and the conditions upon which persons may, after such modification, contribute thereto;
  16. (p) The scheme shall set forth under what circumstances provision shall be made for the dissolution or discontinuance in whole or in part of the Fund, and in any such case what provision shall be made for outstanding or accruing annuities and liabilities, and for the distribution of the assets belonging to the Fund, and what consents, on the part of the Company or of the contributors to the Fund, shall be required;
  17. (q) The scheme shall provide for the holding of meetings of the members of the Fund, or meetings of delegates representing the members of the Fund, in districts set forth in the scheme, or for otherwise bringing the accounts and position of the Fund to the knowledge of its members;
  18. (r) The scheme shall be submitted for the approval of the Board of Trade, and that Board may consider the same, and may either approve the same without alteration, or may suggest any alterations therein, or may disapprove the same; and if the Committee assent to the alterations (if any) so suggested, the Board of Trade may approve the scheme as altered, and the Fund shall be established in accordance with the scheme approved by that Board;
  19. (s) The Company shall, in the month of March in every year, send to the Board of Trade an account showing the then condition of the Fund, and if that Board are not satisfied that the Fund is sufficient, and in their judgment consider that it should be discontinued, they may order it to be discontinued, and the assets to be distributed in accordance with the scheme of this Act, subject to such modifications (if any) as they may consider necessary in the circumstances of the case.

(2) The Company shall, at the end of each and every half-year after the establishment of the Fund, contribute thereto, out of the revenues of the Company, such sums of money as shall from time to time be authorised by three-fourths of the votes of their shareholders present in person or by proxy at a general meeting of the Company, duly convened with express notice of the special object, and which half-yearly sum may from time to time be altered to such extent as the Company in like manner authorise or determine. No contribution of the Company to the Fund shall affect or take away the right or power of the Company to grant out of their own proper funds pension allowances and allowances during sickness, or other allowances, to any of their officers or servants as they think proper; but the Company may, by resolution of their Directors, make provision for the payment out of their revenues, or out of moneys received on revenue account, of any sum or sums of money for the relief or benefit of any servants of the Company who are, from age or other circumstances, unable to become members of the Fund.

(3) The managing committee may, from time to time, regulate their own procedure, and may appoint such officers and at such salaries, pay able out of the Fund, as they may think fit, unless the Directors of the Company otherwise provide for such salaries and the expenses of managing the Fund.

(4) The following provisions shall extend and apply to the Fund and the scheme, which may be established and from time to time altered under the powers of this Act, shall not be in consistent with the stipulations contained in this Section (that is to say):—

  1. (a) It shall not be compulsory upon any servant of the Company to become a member of the Fund;
  2. (b) A meeting of the members of the Fund, or of the delegates as the ease may be, shall be held within twelve months after the establishment of the scheme, and thenceforth once in every succeeding year. At such first and succeeding annual meetings one of the auditors shall be appointed on behalf of the members of the Fund to remain in office for a period of two years;
  3. (c) A copy of the rules shall be delivered by the secretary to every member of the Fund on demand;
  4. (d) The managing committee shall allow any member of or person having an interest in the Fund to inspect the books at all reasonable hours at the principal office of the Company, or at any place where the same are kept, except that no such member or person, unless he be an officer of the Company or be specially authorised by a resolution of the managing committee to do so, shall have the right to inspect the account of any other member without the written consent of such member;
  5. (e) The Company shall supply gratuitously, every member or person interested with a balance sheet, or other document duly audited, containing the particulars as to the receipts and expenditure and effects of the Fund;
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  6. (f) The Company shall keep a copy of the last annual balance sheet for the time being, and of the last septennial or quinquennial valuation for the time being, hereinafter required to be made, together with the report of the auditors (if any), always hung up in a conspicuous place at the principal offices of the Company, or place where the accounts of the Fund are kept, unless the managing committee shall have supplied each member of the Fund with a copy of such document.

(5) Two consulting actuaries may be appointed by the managing committee after the expiration of the first seven years from the establishment of the Fund, and thenceforth at the expiration of every five years thereafter, to examine and report on the state of the Fund and of its assets and liabilities, and one of such actuaries shall be appointed by the Directors of the Company and the other by the members of the Fund or their delegates in meeting assembled, and the actuaries, if they shall consider any alteration to be necessary, shall recommend the scheme which in their judgment, is proper, to be adopted with reference thereto, such scheme being as nearly as may be in conformity with the scheme to be established under the provisions of this Act, and they shall show the proposed addition to or diminution of the benefits, as the case may be, as nearly as possible, rateably and without preference or priority, amongst the persons entitled thereto. Any differences of opinion between the consulting actuaries shall be de termined by a third actuary of their selection, or in such other way as they think fit.

(6) If such two consulting actuaries shall, on the first or any subsequent investigation as hereinbefore provided, report that the Fund is insufficient, and that in their judgment it should be discontinued and the assets distributed, or that it should be continued only in the event of increased contributions being made by the Company and the members of the Fund, they shall prescribe the amount of such contributions respectively, and if the Company on their part shall fail, within six months after receiving such report, to make such further contribution or provision as may ensure the adequacy of the Fund, or if the members of the Fund or their delegates in meeting assembled (which meeting the managing committee shall convene) shall, within the like period of six months, fail to agree to the additional contributions to be made by the members of the Fund, the Fund shall be discontinued, and its assets distributed in accordance with the scheme made under the provisions of this Act, subject to such modifications as the actuaries may consider necessary in the circumstances of the case.

(7) Section 53 (Company may contribute towards funds of Provident Society) of the Act of 1885 is hereby repealed.

*SIR CHARLES DILKE (Gloucester, Forest of Dean) moved to add at the end of the clause the following sub-section:— (8) Sections 27 and 76 of the Friendly Societies Act 1896, and so much of Section 28 of the same Act, as relates to the sending reports and abstracts of valuations to the registrar shall apply to the Fund as if it were a registered Friendly Society. The right hon. Gentleman said that the Question before the House was in a nutshell. The Report of the Committee that considered the Bill stated that the Bill as deposited contained a provision for making contributions to the pension fund obligatory on the part of the Company's servants; but that that provision was struck out of the Bill as laid before the Committee. That was perfectly true; but it was struck out before the Bill went to the Committee, and, therefore, they had nothing to thank the Committee for in regard to that matter. The Committee's Report also stated that the Report of the Chief Registrar of Friendly Societies on the subject of the pension fund was laid before the Committee. But while these words might seem to imply that the Committee had done something in the sense suggested by the Registrar General, the fact was exactly the opposite. The House would remember that before the Bill went to the Committee he moved an Instruction which was, after a very excellent Debate, defeated in a full House by only a small majority. On that occasion he contended that these funds ought to be closely and carefully watched by the House. He was not again going into the general expediency of the fund, for it had been decided so far as this Bill was concerned; and what the House had to consider was whether the Report of the Chief Registrar of Friendly Societies had been in any sense complied with or whether any weight was attached to it by the Committee. The Committee had considered it and had given it the go-by. The Motion he had just made would apply to the fund created by the Bill some portion of the general law. Other funds of a similar nature, established by any body not a railway company, had to be the subject of report to the Chief Registrar of Friendly Societies, and were under all kinds of statutory provisions, contained in the Friendly Societies Act of 1896. The Committee had altogether rejected these conditions in this case, and had given no reason whatever for rejecting the recommendation that the fund should be put in relation to the Registrar of Friendly Societies, although that was what the House probably expected them to do, and what they should have done. What he now proposed was a compromise. He asked that three clauses of the Friendly Societies Act, 1896, should in part apply to this fund, namely, Section 27, requiring animal returns; Section 28 requiring valuation to be sent to the Registrar; and Section 76, empowering the Registrar to inspect the affairs of the society when he was applied to by the members of that society. It might be said that the finances of these great railway companies were so sound that they need never be brought before the Registrar of Friendly Societies at all, but there was one of these societies which had a deficiency of something like £300,000 in its accounts, and while, no doubt, that would be made up, he thought it would be much better that the general law as to friendly societies should apply to all those bodies, so far as their accounts were concerned. ["Hear, hear!"] Sections 27and 28 of the Act were really only statistical, and the application of the latter section was made only partial in order to avoid conflict with a sub-section in the Bill, which, provided that the first valuation should be at the end of seven years, instead of at the end of live years, as required by the general law. Of course, if the promoters would rather have Section 28 in its entirety, he would be very glad to agree, for that would still more meet his views. Section 76 had been found in the case of all other societies an excellent provision for the protection of the interests of the members, and he thought it would be a wise provision in this case. The Committee had put in the Board of Trade; but why that Board should be selected as being a better authority than an office which existed for the express purpose, he could not imagine. The Chief Registrar of Friendly Societies was created by Parliament to look after bodies of this kind, and he and his officers were skilled on this question. Members would see that Section 49, the first start of the society, was left in the absolute hands of the Company itself. The Committee might tell the House that the Board of Trade was to be called in, and had to be satisfied. But he personally would prefer that this fund should be managed in accordance with the general law which Parliament had sanctioned, believing that there was no authority equal to that which was provided by the existence of the Registrar of Friendly Societies. They might be told that the Board of Trade could, if they liked, and probably would, I call in the services of the Chief Registrar, and ask him to advise; but was it not much better that they should go to him direct? He begged to move the Amendment which stood upon the Paper in his name.

MR. W. J. GALLOWAY (Manchester, S.W.)

on behalf of the promoters, said he must not be understood to accept either in detail or in full, any of the statements of the right lion. Gentleman with regard to the functions of the Chief Registrar of Friendly Societies; or still less as to what was the intention of Parliament in framing the law which now regulated friendly societies as to the arrangements which very often existed between private employers and their workmen. The Amendment seemed to him to be entirely covered by paragraph (s) of Sub-section (l) of the clause; and though it would involve a certain amount of extra trouble to the Company, it did not seem to him to effect any great benefit to the men or to anybody else; but, on behalf of the promoters, he was quite ready to accept it. It was only fair to say that the Company received private information from the Board of Trade that very probably, when the Bill came before the House of Lords, they would refuse to accept the powers which had been placed upon them by the Commons' Committee. Of course, in that case the Bill would come back amended from that House.

Amendment agreed to.

Bill to be Read the Third time.

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