§ Lord Henry Petty ,pursuant to his notice given upon a former day, of a. motion for instituting a new commission of enquiry into the system of military expenditure in the West-India islands, rose now for the purpose of bringing it forward. He said, that although the immediate object of the motion he intended that night to propose, was the repeal of the act now in existence for instituting commissioners for enquiring into the system of military expenditure in the West-India islands, he hoped it would pot be thought obtrusive by the house, nor altogether irrelevant to the great topic of general enquiry into the expenditure of the state for some years past, that he should take that opportunity of stating the outlines of the measure now in the contemplation of his majesty's government to bring forward, for a purpose so important and desirable; and if, in so doing, he should find it necessary to trespass at some length upon the attention of the house, he should feel too high a respect for the justice and character of parliament, to suppose that any apology was necessary on his part for calling the attention of a British house of commons to one of its most sacred, important, and indispensable duties, namely, that of examining into the expenditure of the public money. In calling, then, the attention of the house to this subject, he should feel it necessary to advert to the modes by which the public accounts were heretofore examined and controlled. Previous to the establishment of the board of commissioners for this purpose, instituted under the auspices of a late right hon. gent. whom he had succeeded, the important office of examining and auditing the public accounts of the receipt and expenditure of the nation, was vested in two officers of the crown, and so continued down to the year 1785. But those officers, like many others, were charged with duties so far beyond the reach of their exertions, and vested with powers so inadequate, that although their services were not to be deemed as entirely useless, they were certainly very inefficient. The noble persons who had then, for some time, held those 296 official situations (lord Bute and lord Sondes), although they remembered tolerably well that there were salaries to be received, yet, in process of time, forgot that there were also duties to be performed; and though they never omitted regularly to receive the salaries attached to their situations, their official lassitude sunk at least into a total neglect of those duties. The consequence was, that, the business being now much in arrear, the accounts, which accumulated during the progress of the American war, became so complicated, and expanded to such an extent, as to impress strongly upon the minds of the legislature and the public, the necessity of some more efficient plan of investigation. Foremost to participate in this feeling, the late right hon. gent., then at the head of the finances, formed the project of instituting commissioners to enquire into the public accounts, The defect which had so long prevailed on this point was too obvious to escape the observation of his luminous mind. He saw that the auditors, whose duty it was to examine, had no authority to demand the production of accounts in any department. The parties concerned came forward, or held back, entirely at their own option; and the fees of the officer were not in proportion to the vigilance he exerted in the investigation, but to the number of accounts he dispatched; consequently the officer who could most speedily get through the greatest number of accounts, had the greatest share of credit with the applicant, and of course the greatest share of emolument, as that, in a great measure, consisted of a poundage upon the amount of the bills. Every account that came to them was dispatched without any other examination than the total of the marginal figures. The right hon. gent. therefore, felt it indispensably necessary to rescue the accounts of the country from such a state of confusion, and the public expenditure from the endless liability to fraud and peculation, to which it was exposed; and he therefore brought in this bill to suppress the offices of joint auditors held by the two noble persons before alluded to, and to institute a new board of commissioners of accounts. But notwithstanding the Herculean labours encountered by the gentlemen who composed that board, and notwithstanding the immense mass of public accounts through which they waded, yet under the various vicissitudes in which the country 297 had been since involved, such an arrear of unexamined expenditure had accumulated, as to render it absolutely necessary that some system of examination should be instituted, to draw the national accounts out of the contusion in which they now stood, and, if possible, to bring up the arrear which had been so long growing, and had at length arrived at a magnitude scarcely credible. Besides the five commissioners of accounts who were appointed under the bill to which he alluded, two other commissioners, totally distinct, were appointed to investigate the military accounts; but here again accumulation had so completely outstripped research and industry, that the principal share of the arrears had accrued under that head. For that system of controul over military expenditure, (and it was much to be lamented it had ever fallen into disuse,) this country was indebted to lord Godolphin. Of the system established by that wise minister, so highly important and useful to the country at that day, he should make no apology for reading a short outline. The commissioners then, or, as they were more properly called, the comptrollers of military expenditure, took cognizance of all monies issued from the treasury for military purposes, and also of the expenditure in every way. They were made parties to all contracts formed for military purposes, and they were bound to report to the treasury the state of the expenditure from time to time, all frauds which they should discover, and audit and countersign all military accounts, the same as all other comptrollers. When those offices were constituted, it was thought a hard measure to make the same men auditors of accounts, in cases of expenditure carried on under their own control and direction; nevertheless it was deemed an useful one, as it rendered the bond of responsibility still stronger. But, though it appeared, that, under the plan instituted by a late right hon. gent., an endeavour was made to establish a controul over the army expenditure, under the authority of persons appointed for that purpose, yet the effect of that authority had, in a great degree, ceased; the persons entrusted with the duty, very seldom reported the abuses which had accrued; and at length their authority fell so much into lassitude and negligence, that large issues of public money had been made for the service of the army, from time to which ought to have been submitted 298 to them, according to the original rules of their institution, but of which they had no Cognizance whatever. He alluded to sums issued for hospital stores and field works, which always form a very extensive branch of the military disbursements, and for which, during six successive years in the late war, a sum of not less than 700,000l. annually was paid to a Mr. Trotter; and such was the zeal and industry of that ingenious gentleman, and such the variety of avocations in which he was desirous of distinguishing himself for the service of the public, that he was, at one and the same time, the manufacturer of some of the articles of stores, the purveyor of other articles, the contractor for others, the comptroller of the expenditure, and filially the auditor of his own accounts; besides, generously feeling that after so much zeal and industry exerted for the accommodation of the country in his own person, he was entitled to some remuneration beyond the ordinary class of contractors, he charged 10 per cent. upon the whole expenditure, over and above all other profits upon the articles so furnished! Another head of account was that of Barracks, in itself an immense field of expenditure, and on which no less than nine millions had been expended in the course of the late war, no part of which bad been submitted to the cognizance of comptrollers; and though the military commissioners had it in charge to investigate this department, yet so embarrassed were they in their proceedings, by the complicated mass of other accounts through which they had to struggle, that no part of the proceedings of the barrack department had yet been looked into. It was found also, that by the principal persons in several departments, many large sums had been issued to clerks and inferior persons in office for Minor disbursements, of the expenditure of which no account had been passed for years, nor any regular communication made to the chief officer. Such a state of accumulation in the unchecked accounts called loudly for the immediate adoption of some remedy; and the more so, as already, at two different times, thirty-five assistant clerks had been added to the establishment of the commissioners of accounts, without attaining the end so much desired, and therefore partial remedies must now give place to a system more extensive and efficient. Not only in the expenditure at home and in Europe had these arrears accumulated, but in the West 299 Indies also, where the abuses were so glaring, that in 1800 it was found necessary to send commissioners thither, for the purpose of investigation; but even then, nothing effectual had been done, though the most enormous abuses were found to have prevailed. Last year, an attempt was made to remedy the evil, by the appointment of new commissioners, by whom, though certainly much had been done, still not enough was done; for though much had escaped the enquiry of the old board, yet instead of fetching up the arrears, the new commissioners were plunged still deeper in accumulation, and most enormous sums remained still uninvestigated. What idea must the house feel of the state of accounts, under the head of pay to the army, when they should be informed, that the very last account of army pay, examined by the board of accounts, was for 1782, and that no account of that nature had been since audited: being a period of 24 years from the close of the American war. The navy accounts were also very greatly in arrear, and the store accounts lay over since the period just mentioned, without any examination; all the expences of the last war were in the same predicament. The account of the expeditions to the Helder and to Egypt, and all the charges connected with them, as well as all subsidiary accounts with continental powers, were totally untouched to this hour. One of the great objections made against the principals in the department of expenditure, was their employment of supernumerary accountants, whom they entrusted with large sums of money for disbursement, and the progress towards examining those subordinate accounts was so tedious, that many persons had not accounted for the sums they had received until ten years afterwards, while a very large portion of them were unexamined, even to the present hour; nor had the existing board of treasury been able, with all their endeavours for three months past, to obtain a return even of the heads of such accounts to be examined. There were, besides, accounts under the examination of the old commissioners, to the amount of 167 millions, not nearly gone through; and also a sum of 58 millions, of which the account had not yet been explained. Add to this a sum of 150 millions, under the head of army pay, still untouched, as well as 80 millions of navy expenditure, and there would appear an aggregate sum of no less 300 than 455 millions sterling, still unaccounted for, within the last 20 years, a sum almost as great as the whole national debt. These considerations, important and impressive as they were, had already called for the most serious investigation of his majesty's present ministers, and irresistibly argued the pressing necessity of a full investigation. He felt it scarcely necessary to represent to the house that danger to the credit and stability of the public resources, which must arise from such a circumstance as an accumulation of the public accounts for twenty years, and those the most productive in finance, and the most profuse in expenditure, that had ever occurred in any similar period of our annals; which accounts remaining wholly uninvestigated, with the utter impossibility that must arise, from the deaths of so many individuals concerned in those expenditures, of detecting the numberless frauds, or recovering the innumerable debts that must be due to the government through defaults or peculations; a speedy and efficient enquiry became necessary, not only for the sake of the public, but for the sake of the honest class of accountants themselves, whose situation, from their being liable to suspicion with the defaulter and the peculator, must be peculiarly distressing. It was a fact too notorious, that this enormous accumulation of unaudited accounts had long served as a shroud and a veil, behind which the most flagitious malversations had been screened from detection and punishment, while it hung, like a gloomy cloud, over the heads of honest and conscientious men, who were rendered unable, in the lapse of half their lives, to obtain a settlement of their accounts, and a final exculpation of their conduct. Among the many instances of this lamentable deficiency, was the late lord Macartney, a man whose character, for honour and integrity, would ever stand justly. high in the annals of his country. While he was governor of Grenada, during the American war, a sum of 70,000l. stood charged as an expenditure under his administration; and though he survived to a very advanced age, he was never able to have his accounts passed; a great number of persons, from similar causes, and impediments thereby created, in obtaining balances due to them, had been prevented from making good their titles to estates purchased for them, and were thereby subjected to the most ruinous and embarrassing losses. Having gone 301 through these statements, the noble lord next proceeded to submit the outline of his remedy for these glaring evils: In the first place, he said it was proposed to repeal both the acts under which the present commissioners of accounts were constituted, and to appoint, under another act, ten commissioners, for the purpose of auditing and controlling the army accounts; and the better to enable them to direct their investigations with effect, it was proposed to arm them with the authority, which the present commissioners had not, of compelling all persons, connected with the disbursements of public money, to furnish their accounts; these to be distinct from the West- India commissioners; and also of another distinct board of comptrollers of military expenditure, constituted upon a plan similar to that established under lord Godolphin, whose duty it would be to examine, in the first instance, all army estimates and accounts; to watch over the expenditure of military funds; to act as the confidential advisers of the board of treasury, in all applications of money for military purposes; to report such frauds as they should be able to discover; to have the power of calling before them all persons in any degree connected with the military expenditure, and of examining them upon oath. With respect to the ten commissioners of accounts, none of whom were to be members of parliament, it was proposed to separate them into three distinct boards, the one consisting of four members, and the other two, of three members each; those boards to have communication with each other, as they might find necessary for the general advantage of the examinations referred to them; but by no means to mix the objects respectively committed to them. The whole body of accounts in arrear were to be separated into three distinct periods. One of these boards to commence with the public accounts from, the first of December last, and to bring them up clear to the latest period. The next board to take up the investigation of the 167 millions now under enquiry; and the third, to take up the examination of all that body of other accounts that have never yet been called for. By this means, he trusted that the whole of that immense mass would be gone through with the utmost possible expedition, and the affairs of the country, in these respects, placed upon some regular and satisfactory footing. To the chief of each board, a re- 302 sponsibility would be attached for the correctness of each account audited; for the want of which responsibility in the members of other boards, considerable disadvantages had arisen to the country. Distinctly from these, the accounts of general De Lancey would be brought up by two persons specially appointed for the purpose. In addition to this, he had to state, that the expence of these commissioners was not meant to be permanent, nor, in fact, to continue longer than the exigencies of the occasion required; and so soon as the dispatch of their respective tasks would admit, it was intended to reduce the number gradually to six, in which the members remaining of two boards would merge into the third, and aid them in expediting the completion of their enquiry. In case any member should die, government was not to have the privilege of a new appointment, without coming to parliament, and shewing that such appointment was necessary. Having now stated the measure which it Was the intention of his majesty's government to adopt, with regards to the general accounts of the country, the noble lord proceeded to make some observations upon the state of expenditure in the West Indies, the further investigation of which was the object of the motion of which he had given notice as for that day. In that quarter of the empire, notwithstanding all the exertions which had been made by the two successive boards of commissioners already appointed to examine and check the progress of profusion and fraud, still the system had continued to be carried on by the delinquents, under every species of crime that could be subservient to their purpose. Forgery, perjury, bribery, and every stratagem which fraud could devise, had been resorted to; and not content with false charges, false returns, and flagitious embezzlements, they had gone so far as to bribe the officers of his majesty's customs to sign false certificates, fraudulent invoices, and other such documents, in aid of their purposes; proofs of which had been detected, in one instance, to the amount of no less a sum than 80,000l., and, in another, to the amount of 30,000l. actually applied in bribery, to conceal frauds of an enormous extent. Recurring again to the subject of the home commissioners, he said, it was also intended to oblige them to report annually their progress; and to compel the auditors to pass every account referred to them within eighteen months; 303 and, by every possible means, to render the audit of public accounts as prompt and efficient as possible. If the measure proposed should not be found amply sufficient for the purpose, then it would be felt the duty of his majesty's ministers to come to parliament year after year, for further aid and advice, until the end should be completely attained. The noble lord concluded, by moving for "leave to bring in a bill to provide for the more effectual examination of the expenditure of the public money in the West Indies, and for the better discovery of frauds and abuses therein."
Mr. Rosesaid, he did not mean to oppose the motion; but he thought it necessary to offer a few observations, in elucidation of some particular points. When the business of the public accounts was so much accumulated in the American war, as to throw the audit greatly into arrear, commissioners were appointed to examine, and report what measures should be taken to expedite the examination. That commission was entrusted to men of great abilities, who exerted themselves with becoming diligence; but it did not appear that any alteration in the mode of auditing the accounts was thought necessary, till the administration of his late right hon. friend (Mr. Pitt), to whom the credit of that improvement was wholly due. As soon as the money was issued to the public accountants, it was from that time set down against them. There was, besides, a power to call for their accounts and vouchers, and to examine both with a strict attention. The fact was, the duty was suffered too much to devolve on the deputies; but that, too, was remedied by the bill of his right hon. friend. The comptrollers of the army accounts had been always in the habit of examining all the issues to the army; it was therefore fit and proper to make them parties to a final audit, with the objects of which they were, in many instances, so particularly conversant. It was not the noble lord who had first discovered, that the expenditure for hospital stores was not sufficiently attended to. He himself had mentioned it long since, and at the same time that there was an expence of 11 millions in the secretary at war's accounts unexamined and unenquired into. Thus, it was not Mr. Trotter alone that was in the situation of being his own comptroller, but the secretary at war. He was in the hearing of gentlemen, in whose presence he had mentioned this to his late right hon. friend; 304 and traces of it would be found in the Pay-office. The noble lord had stated, that there were 500 or 600 millions of the public money not perfectly accounted for. He did not blame any Individual; but the fact was, that the delay of the examination of the regimental accounts by the secretary at war was the cause of half this arrear. With 40 clerks in this department of the War-office, he thought it strange, that these accounts were not made up. He would not say what these clerks were attending to, but he was sure they were not attending to that. The paymaster was placed in a most unpleasant situation by this deficiency, being called upon to issue money, when he was not sufficiently warranted, and whose loss and discredit might eventually fall on him. The other part of the expenditures, such as the navy, ordnance, and victualling departments, did not belong to the commissioners for auditing. Thus, then, the ostentatious statement of 500 or 600 millions in arrear, was reduced very considerably. The noble lord proposed three additional commissioners. He should be glad to appoint three and twenty, if that would expedite the audit. It had never been doubted, that the barrack accounts were subject to the audit. When general De Lancey had asked him whether they were, he answered positively, yes. Gen. De Lancey pleaded the king's warrant; he answered, that could not supersede an act of parliament. He had no objection to allow further powers to the auditors. If the auditors permitted their clerks to take fees, it was a great dereliction of duty. The commission of enquiry into abuses in the West Indies had been issued, because it was impossible these abuses could be investigated elsewhere. The commissioners had made their report, and it had been put into the hands of the then legal advisers of the crown. Every thing that could have been done was done. Whatever merit belonged to the newly-instituted measures, it belonged exclusively to his late right hon. friend. Till the accounts of the secretary at war were gone through, the pay-master could not possibly bring up his. One half of the arrear arose from the delay in the War-office. The auditors should have the same powers to call for and examine these accounts, that they had to call for and examine others. The responsibility of the secretary at war extended to all the money issued for the service of the army; and it was a most aw- 305 ful responsibility in the present State of the accounts.
§ Lord H. Petty,in explanation, said, that he had stated it as one of the objects of the alteration, to compel the public accountants to bring in their accounts to be audited. It was not from the three new Commissioners, or even from twenty-three, that he Would expect much benefit, if there Were not an alteration of the principle and of the system.
§ Mr. Foxin answer to some allusion made by a right hon. gentleman, to his having supported the original auditors, lord Bute and lord Sondes, said, that he considered it not very fair to quote against any member of the house the speeches which newspapers might have put into his mouth about twenty years ago.
Mr. Yorkesaid, that he conceived the cause of the delay in examining the public accounts was, that the concerns of the country had grown too great for those arrangements which might have done twenty years ago. About 20 years ago, as he was informed, ten or twelve clerks were all that were kept in the War-office; whereas, at present, there were filly or sixty, and that number was found unequal to the business. Regimental accounts were things which required very minute and accurate examination; and there were now near 10,000 regimental accounts which were either totally unexamined, or examined in a very cursory manner. He did not, however, think that any blame was imputable to any body. if he were disposed to criticise the speech of the noble lord, he Would say, that it appeared rather to have been made with a view ad captandum vulgus. it appeared like catching at popularity, by suggesting blame when none was imputabla.
Mr. Secretary Windhamstated the manner in which accounts Were examined in the War-office, and in which Mr. Trotter's accounts had been examined. At the War-office, they only compared the account sent in with the vouchers, and only saw that the order was issued, and the articles furnished. This mode of examining accounts was very far short of what was now proposed by the noble lord.
Mr. Bathurstthought he Should be wanting in the duty he owed to those who had been employed in the War-office, when he was at the head of that department, if he were to hear it said, unanswered, that there were 30 or 40 clerks at the War-office, 306 whose duty it was to examine those accounts, but how they employed themselves the right hon. gent. (Mr. Rose) could not tell. He had witnessed the great zeal and activity of the persons employed in the War-office, and was convinced, that if the arrear increased, it was merely because it was impossible for them to get through all the business that came before them.
Mr. Rose ,in explanation, said, that he did not mean to say, generally, that the persons in the War-office neglected their duty; but only that this part of their duty, the examining of accounts, had not been performed.
§ Mr. W. Dundasvindicated the conduct of the persons employed in the War-office, who, as he conceived, strained every nerve in the execution of their duty; but the great increase of business was such, that the existing establishments were not equal to it.
The Secretary at Warconfirmed this statement, and said, that the difference between the business 20 years ago, when he had held the same situation, bore no more proportion to the business now, than that of the most inferior tradesman to the first-rate merchant.
Lord Castlereaghthought that the remarks of his right hon. friend (Mr. Rose) had been taken up in a manner which they did not warrant. What his right hon. friend complained of was, that the business had been arrested in the offices to which he had referred, which complaint had not been controverted; and therefore he thought the suggestion of his right hon. friend should be attended to.
§ Lord H. Pettyobserved, that the suggestion of the right hon. gentleman had been anticipated by the plan which he had just proposed.
Mr. Robsonrose to express his most hearty and sincere thanks to the noble lord, for having explained so ably the atrocious corruption which had been carried on for the last twenty years, in the expenditure of the public money. He hoped and trusted the noble lord would appoint a fourth commission, to enquire into and return the names of those members of the different administrations which had, for the last 20 years, suffered such monstrous abuses and corruption to exist. He hoped, however, that since the noble lord had taken it up, 307 he would endeavour to prevent the like from happening again. There must be great blame somewhere, and he hoped the chancellor of the exchequer would take care to trace it to those who had incurred that blame.—The question was then put, and leave was given to bring in the bill.