§ Mr. Francis roseand spoke as follows:—Mr. Speaker; I rise, pursuant to notice, to move for the production of a document, which is at once of considerable importance and curiosity; but, as it relates to a subject which appears not to deserve much interest in this house or in the country, it may not excite adequate attention. I well know, by long experience, that India and every question connected with it, has no attraction for parliament or for the public; and that now, as well as on all former occasions; I shall still have to contend with the impatience and disgust of a careless unwilling audience. This alone makes the task too heavy for me, and is more than ought to be imposed on any individual, who has laboured for two-and-twenty years to execute a most invidious as well as important service, without reward, or assistance, or even encouragement from any body. It is not possible for the house to believe, that I can have any satisfaction in such a labour, except from the sense of performing a great and urgent duty, the execution of which, in fact, has been a principal bar to all my views in life as well as a perpetual interruption to my quiet and happiness. So far from having a pleasure in the dry discussion of such subjects, if it were possible for me to command a vote of this house, the first resolution they should pass should be to close my lips, and silence me for ever, on India affairs. The task I have undertaken, and so long pursued, is difficult, is unpleasing to those most interested in it, and, as yet, productive of no benefit to the country; still I will go on.—I will not solicit; but I will advise the house, as they value the interests of India, not to discourage the few, who may yet be disposed to investigate that subject, nor to damp their pursuit by a languid, reluctant attention; by, in fact, slighting their zeal. India is every day becoming more formidable to this country, and every thing that relates to our possessions in that quarter imperiously claims the attention of parliament. The question, which I have now to submit to the consideration of the house, does not refer to war or peace, or to any topic of Indian policy. It is merely a point respecting finance; and perhaps will not be a bad preface to the motion of which an hon. gent. on the bench behind me (Mr. Paull) has given notice for this day. Mo- 188 tions of this nature I conceive to be particularly necessary, in consequence of the irregular manner in which the accounts respecting India have been laid before the house, or rather by the neglect for some time to make any official communication what ever from that quarter. No Indian budget, you will recollect, was produced in the last sessions, and the noble lord (Castlereagh) who then presided over the board of controul accounted for that singular omission (nothing similar to which, as I believe, had ever occurred before, since the board of controul was instituted) in this singular way; viz. that the necessary accounts had not arrived from India. This was certainly strange: and I recommend it to the particular attention of his majesty's present ministers. Since the end of March 1803, no statement has been laid before parliament, of the situation of the finances of India. If I were to ask the reason why the necessary and usual accounts were not produced in due time to enable the minister for India to bring forward the India budget for last year, it would not surely be answered, that these accounts were not sent from India in due time; for, any such delay unaccounted for would involve the direct breach of an act of parliament. But if it were said that the dispatches were intercepted; that the ship which carried them was captured, and that thus our financial accounts fell into the hands of the enemy; then another question would arise. It is notorious, that every captain entrusted with the conveyance of public dispatches, receives written official instructions from the secretary's office at each presidency to keep the public dispatches entrusted to him, in a state of preparation; that is, ready slung and loaded with weights to be instantly thrown into the sea from the stern gallery, at any moment when he should see that the capture of his ship by an enemy was unavoidable.—Why were these orders not obeyed? How came those most important dispatches from India, as well as outward bound, which were published at Paris, to fall into the hands of the French? How did it happen that our government for many successive months knew nothing of their contents, nor indeed of the state of India, but through the medium of the French newspapers, retranslated into ours?—Have the directors made any effective enquiry into the causes and circumstances of this most unfortunate event? I call it unfor- 189 tunate only, until I know that it was owing to some negligence, which of itself would be criminal, without supposing a worse motive.—The subject of the motion, which I am now about to make, is not, or rather ought not to be, new to this house. I have mentioned it repeatedly, but without success, or being able to obtain the least explanation concerning it. And how should it be otherwise, when, as the noble lord well knows, his interest, which was considerable, and mine put together, could never obtain an audience of more than fifteen or twenty members to his India budgets; and that, towards the close of those debates, we were generally left to ourselves, with the chairman of the committee.—This supineness on the subject of India, has already produced the worst consequences as to India; and if another course be not adopted, I am sure will be the cause of serious distress, to this country. On the 21st of Jan. 1805, (see vol. iii. p. 50.) I stated to the house, that a sum of money equal to 352,000l. had been lately charged in the disbursements of the presidency of Bombay, with no other explanation than these Words: "Lent to the Guicowar."—The house ought to know two things;—that the several presidencies in India are generally in distress for money, and constantly employed to raise it by every possible expedient; and that Bombay is the poorest and the most distressed of them all. In these Circumstances, they profess to have lent an enormous sum of the company's money to this their tributary prince. To save the time of the house, I beg leave to read, what I before said, and which has been some time an print on this subject, as a part of my speech: "In the country of Guzzerat, to the north-west of Bombay, there is, a Prince called Guicowar; a part of his territory has been ceded to the company, partly to make good the pay of our subsidiary force stationed at Poona, and for other objects of indemnification. Out of that fund we ought to have received a considerable revenue; but to that prince the government of Bombay have lent a sum not much less than 360,000l. The documents relative to this extraordinary transaction, I think, ought to have been laid before the house, under the orders already given; which would save time and trouble; if not, it must be the subject of a particular motion." I think it is natural 190 to ask on what ground, and .for what reason, this loan was made. In the printed papers, I cannot find any thing to throw a ray of light on the subject. The company take possession of the territory of Guicowar, they hold it in his name, and the first thing done is to lend him 352,000l. Why, on the very face of the transaction there is something which calls for explanation. The words of the official dispatch from Bombay relative to this prince and territory, were these— "This state has for its present native ruler a chieftain of avowedly weak intellects. Our support therefore must be extended to all the operations of its government; holding as we do, the immediate charge of the Guicowar chieftain's own guard, and dividing with his troops the garrison of his capital."—Does any man believe that the Guicowar ever received a shilling of this loan? If there be really such a man, I shall only say, that that man knows nothing of the politics of India.—The hon. gent. concluded with moving, that there he laid before the house "extracts of any letters or accounts received from the presidency of Bombay, relative to the sum of Bombay rupees, 31,25,944, inserted in the account of their disbursements for the year ending the 30th April, 1803, and said to be money lent to Guicowar."
§ Mr. Hiley Addingtonsaid, that had he been a member of the house yesterday when the notice of this motion was given, he would have taken the liberty of asking the hon. gent. to postpone bringing it forward, until the board to which he had the honour to belong should have an opportunity of considering the subject, and of enquiring into the nature of the papers connected with it. This indulgence he hoped the hon. mover would not be disinclined to grant to a board so recently appointed. The application would not, he trusted, be deemed unreasonable, when the nature of the business connected with their office was taken into view; when it was considered that it might be necessary to look over a number of papers which the noble lord on the other side (lord Castlereagh) knew to be pretty voluminous, before an opinion could be formed, whether it would be consistent with the public interest to accede to the object of this motion. As the grant of this paper Was not so very pressing in its nature, he hoped the hon. gent. Would have no objections ,to post- 191 pone it for a day or two; and be assured the hon. gent. that, in the mean time, the subject to which his motion referred should be carefully enquired into.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, he was as ready as any man to acknowledge the debt of gratitude which parliament and the country owed to the hon. mover, for the zeal and assiduity which he had uniformly manifested upon the important subject of our interests in India; and he perfectly concurred with that hon. gent. that it was essentially necessary the house should apply itself to the attentive consideration of those great interests. But, in order to enter into that consideration, every part of the subject should be laid before the house. The whole of the question should be completely understood. With respect to the assertion, that the India budget not having been brought forward last sessions was an unprecedented omission, be begged leave to set the hon. gent. right; for precisely the same omission occurred the first year be was president of the board of controul. But as to the cause of the last omission, of which the hon. gent. had complained, it was known to have proceeded from the delay of the accounts from India, which were indispensably necessary to the preparation of the budget; and the same cause occasioned the omission which took place before he entered into office. As to the motion before the house, he saw no objection to the production of the paper referred to; but it was for the right hon. gent. (Mr. H. Addington) and his colleagues to exercise their own discretion. When that paper should be laid before the house, and the transaction to which it alluded should be fully understood, the impression on his mind was, that the hon. mover would find the loan not to have been improvidently advanced; that it was not money lent without a just motive, or without ample security; but, on the contrary, that land was assigned to the company to ensure the repayment of this loan, and that that land was placed under the company's own administration. On the whole, the noble lord had no doubt it would appear, that the advance to this prince was a proceeding which stood upon the best principles of policy, that it was perfectly justifiable, and that no loss whatever was .likely to accrue from it. To the hon. mover's allusion, in the style of complaint, to the absence of the directors on this discussion, he should only say, that being 192 this day engaged in attendance at a general court, which, as to-morrow was a holiday, no doubt presented an increase of business, their absence from the house was at least excusable.
Lord Morpethjoined in the request of his right hon. colleague (Mr. H. Addington), that the hon. mover would defer his motion for a few days.
§ Mr. Francissaid, he had no thought whatever of attaching blame to, or occasioning any inconvenience to those who now directed the board of controul. He brought forward this motion before the house, in compliance with a notice which he had given so early as the last sessions, With the request made to him by the noble lord who had last spoken and his right hon. colleague, he had no difficulty in complying; but he wished to learn, when the noble lord would be able to ascertain the propriety of acceding to the motion, which he had felt it his duty to bring forward. He also would he glad to hear when the India budget, which was omitted last year, was likely to be brought forward.
Lord Morpethassured the hon. gent. that no time would be lost in enquiring into the subject to which his motion referred, With regard to the India budget, he stated it to be his intention, on the next meeting of the house, to move for the production of the accounts necessary to the bringing forward the budget of last year. How long these accounts might be preparing he could not pretend to say.
§ Mr. Charles Grantsaid, he had not been in the house when the motion was made. He regretted that the attendance on his duty in another place, deprived him of the advantage of hearing the observations of the hon gent. who introduced it. By all the information he could collect on the subject, he thought that there would be no objection to comply with it. He was sure it was the wish of the court of directors, that every information in their power should be given. At the same time, he felt it an important consideration, to ascertain how far it might be consistent with the general interests of the company to have their accounts called for on every occasion.—Mr. Francis then, with the permission of the house, withdrew his motion.