HC Deb 21 April 1806 vol 6 cc834-9
Mr. Rose ,

pursuant to notice, called the attention of the house to the intercourse between the United States and our West-India colonies. The right hon. gent. entered into a detailed account of the trade of the colonies, and the manner in which they had been supplied with provisions and lumber, previous to the relaxation of the navigation law, in order to allow them to receive supplies of these articles from the United States, &c. in the shipping of America. When the first application was made to govt. to grant this indulgence to the West-India planters, a commission of enquiry was appointed, and it was found that the necessity stated by the planters did not exist, and that the apprehensions of scarcity, which they then expressed, were groundless. A strong reason against complying with their wishes arose out of the importance of this branch of trade to our commercial interest and our maritime strength. In fact, it appeared that before the American shipping were allowed to trade with our colonies, we had in that employment no less than 937 ships, of 110,000 tons, and 6,500 seamen. But since the exclusion of American shipping had been released, to which gentlemen felt it necessary to assent in the year 1793, a diminution of a most alarming nature had taken place in the quantity of our shipping, in the colonial trade. In fact it was reduced to 167 ships, of 19,000 tons, and only 1,300 men. Such was the consequence of this relaxation. But yet, great as the sacrifice was, government was urged to accede to it for the accommodation of the planters, for the supply of the colonies. The concession was however made to the pressure of strong necessity, and if a similar necessity should recur, he would not be disposed to resist a similar concession, always, however, letting the responsibility for such acts lie with the governors of the islands. He had heard that it was intended to transfer this responsibility to the ministry at home; and he deprecated such an intention. He was sure it would be dangerous, and that, if responsibility were withdrawn from the governors, it would fix no where, and the consequence would be, that the trade with our colonies would be thrown open altogether to the Americans. The colonial governors would surely be the best judges of the existence of any necessity for the admission of American ships. Indeed, that necessity, if he was rightly informed, was not likely again to occur, if measures were taken to enforce the provisions of the navigation act. If American ships were altogether excluded, he was assured that there were numbers of British ship-owners, who would be ready to freight a sufficient number of British ships, to carry every necessary article from America for the supply of our colonies, and after-wards to bring home our colonial produce. To enforce the exclusion of the Americans was necessary, in order to encourage our own American colonies, which he spewed, from an account of its supply of certain articles, was competent to furnish our islands with more than seemed to be the general supposition, and yet those colonies appeared to decrease in wealth and population as the United States advanced. The right hon. gent., with a view to impress upon the house the importance of this subject, stated the various interests that were involved; he particularly dwelt upon the consequences resulting to the East-India Co. from the intercourse of America with our colonies. The fact was, that not an article of our East-India produce found its way of late either to the British or Spanish colonies but through American traders. That our colonists could not find a market for their rum, if not allowed an intercourse, was an assertion which he deemed of no weight; and it was absurd to say that it would tend to throw any impediment in the way of our amicable understanding with America; it our navigation laws were rigidly enforced, that country could not, consistently, complain of our resolution to maintain that which had been, for so long a period, the law of England, but which was, in fact, one of the fundamental laws of every maritime state. For there was no rich state to be found which did not maintain a monopoly of the trade of its colonies. Under all the circumstances, he warmly recommended to ministers to enquire into this subject most carefully before they attempted to carry into effect the design ascribed to them. The interests of the ship-owners, the planters themselves, the manufacturers, and the East-India Co., all of which were concerned in this affair, ought to be well weighed and considered. Towards the planters he felt a very natural disposition to accommodate, for he was much interested in West-India property, having himself a large estate there. But he would consent to no accommodation Which threatened such consequences to Great-Britain, as the reported project of ministers was likely to produce. He declared, as the conviction of his mind, that if the salutary restraints of the navigation law were enforced upon this point, that, from even its present reduced state, the advances of our colonial trade would be such that we should soon employ in that branch from 100 to 150 thousand tons of shipping, and from 8 to 10 thousand seamen. The right hon. gent. concluded with moving, for; 1,"An account of the number of British ships, their tonnage, and the number of men employed in the trade between Great-Britain and the United States of America, from 5th Jan. 1789, to 5th Jan. 1806; distin- guishing each year.—2. An account of the number of ships, their tonnage, and number of men employed in the same, which belonged to the British West-India islands and the British colonies on the Continent of America, and which were employed in the trade between those islands (exclusive of settlements captured), and the Continent of America, from 5th Jan. 1792, to 5th Jan 1806; distinguishing each year, and distinguishing those trading from the West Indies to the United States, from those to the British Continental colonies.—3. An account of the quantities of provisions and lumber imported into the British West-Indies, (exclusive of conquered islands) from the United States of America, and from the British Continental colonies respectively, from 5th Jan. 1793, to 5th Jan. 1806, so far as the same can be made up; distinguishing each year, and distinguishing the quantities imported in British ships, from those in foreign ships.—4. An account of the quantities of rum, sugar, coffee, and cotton wool, exported from the British West-India Islands, from 5th Jan. 1793, to 5th Jan. 1806, so far as the same can be made up; distinguishing each year, and the quantities to the United States, to the British colonies on the Continent of America, and to Great Britain respectively."

Lord H. Petty

had no hesitation in avowing the intention to make that transfer of responsibility of which the right hon. gent. professed to disapprove, and he had no doubt that it would prove to be a most beneficial change. The house and the country must feel, that the most convenient way of supplying our West-India islands was from America; and the object of the proposed arrangement was, that this supply should be regular; that the colonies should be protected from the scarcities and fluctuations of supply, which had been productive of so much calamity and desolation. It was material to humanity and justice, that some fixed determination should be come to upon the subject. Sooner than leave it in its present state of uncertainty, it would be even better to declare, that the islands must be wholly supplied from G. Britain. It was highly necessary that some system should be established, and that matters should not be left to the discretion or cession of governors. The conduct of the last administration, to which the measure belonged, shewed that the relaxation of the law, which the right hon. gent. would now draw so tight, was necessary to the provisional subsistence of our islands, for they relaxed that law both during war and peace. As to the right hon. gent's allusion to the capacity of our American possessions to supply our islands, that could be best judged of by this fact, that these possessions found it necessary themselves to apply to government for a relaxation of the law in their own favour, in order that they might obtain provision from the United States. The scarcity which produced this application was, no doubt, in some measure, the effect of accident; but yet, in providing for the subsistence of men, he would, as much as possible, guard against the recurrence of even accident. The noble lord concluded with remarking, that, although he felt the proper time for the discussion of this subject would be when the general question was under consideration, still he could not persuade himself to withhold the observations he had made.

Lord Castlereagh

said he could never consent to any measure that went so materially to affect the commerce and shipping interest of the country as the one about to be adopted by his majesty's ministers. The rule had been, and it was the rule he always wished to see observed, that whenever such importations as those in question were permitted, the persons permitting them should act not according but contrary to law; and that it should afterwards be in the discretion of parliament, according to the nature or necessity of the case, to indemnify them for their breach of a positive law.

Mr. Fuller

said, there was a certain fatality attending some men, which was that they never were able to abandon any opinion they had once adopted, however etroneous it might be. This seemed to be now the case with those who in their devotion for the navigation laws, would suffer the West Indies to be ruined, and their inhabitants starved for want of necessaries Had not the governors of the islands permitted the importation of provisions, the inhabitants of the islands would have perished. But governors might not always be disposed to act on their responsibility, and the islands might be in want. He wished to know how they could be supplied by British ships? At this moment we were not able to get seamen to man our navy, much less to send ships out to carry on a circuitous trade to America, and thence to the West Indies. The export of West-India commodities would be considerably checked if the American intercourse was not permitted. The conduct pursued by the right hon. gent. (Mr. Rose) reminded him of other measures adopted by him to the prejudice of the West-India planters, when he acted under the late chancellor of the exchequer. They gave unlimited encouragement to the importation of brandy, and the consequence was that the poor West-India planters could hardly find a market for their rum. The measure now about to be adopted by government would have a most beneficial effect, and it met with his decided approbation.

Sir W. Young

approved of the measure about to be adopted by ministers; as did also

Mr. Barham ,

who said that so great was the scarcity of shipping to carry away the produce of the plantations, that he had 200 hogsheads of rum lying at one time for 6 months, without any means of sending them away. As to British ships carrying on the trade to the colonies which the Americans did, none would be found to do it.

Mr. Rose

said, that the trade was sufficiently profitable to afford a temptation to our merchants to carry it on.—The motions were then agreed to.