DEBTS OF THE NABOBS OF ARCOT. (Hansard, 14 April 1806)

§ Mr. Hobhouse

moved the order of the day, for taking into further consideration the Report which, upon the 27th day of March last, was made from the committee, to whom the Petition of the several Creditors of his Highness the Nabob Wallah Jah, formerly Nabob of Arcot, and now deceased, and of his Highness the Nabob Omdut ul Omrah, late Nabob of Arcot, and of his Highness the Ameer ul Omrah, now also deceased, or one of them, and parties to the articles of agreement there, in after mentioned, was referred; which being read, the hon. gent. rose and observed, that before he proceeded to move for leave to bring in "a bill, for enabling the commissioners acting in execution of an agreement made between the East-India company and the private creditors of the late Nabobs of the Carnatic, the better to carry the same into effect," the house would naturally expect from him some preliminary observations, tending to explain the grounds upon which this measure was introduced to the notice of parliament. Indian subjects were usually deemed to be dry and complicated in their nature, and hence they did not generally receive the attention which their magnitude deserved. He was, therefore, obliged to an hon. gent. (Mr. Francis) now absent, on account of a domestic misfortune which he (Mr. H.) sincerely lamented, for endeavouring to rouse the attention of the house to this measure which, he agreed with him, was of great importance. Unfortunately for him (Mr. H.) it was also a subject of great extent, so that he should be under the necessity of troubling the house at greater length than was agreeable to his inclinations. In order that the house might completely understand the Whole transaction, he felt himself compelled to go back as far as the year 1784, when parliament first took cognizance of the private debts of the Nabob of Arcot, 725 and to describe several treaties with the princes of the Carnatic, subsequently to that time; he should however, be as brief as the nature of the subject would allow. In 1784, an act was passed, the 24th of the king, cap. 25, intitled, "An act for the better regulation and management of the affairs of the East-India company, and of the British possessions in India; and for establishing a court of judicature for the more speedy and effectual trial of persons accused of offences committed in the East Indies." By the 37th section of that act, it was provided that, "whereas very large sums of money are claimed to be due to British subjects by time Nabob of Arcot, in the recovery whereof it is expedient that such assistance should be given them as shall be consistent with the rights of the company, the security of the creditors, and the honour and dignity of the said Nabob; be it enacted, that the court of directors of the said company shall, as soon as may be, take into consideration the origin and justice of the said demands, as far as the materials they are in possession of shall enable them to do; and that they shall give such orders to their presidencies and servants abroad, for completing the investigation thereof, as the nature of the case shall require, and for establishing, in concert with the said Nabob, such fund for the discharge of those debts, which shall appear to be justly due, according to their respective claims of priority, as shall be consistent with the rights of the said united company, the security of the creditors, and the honour and dignity of time said Nabob." The first question which presented itself, was, what was done in consequence of this legislative enactment? The statute was promulgated at Madras in Feb. 1785, and soon afterwards a treaty was concluded between Mr. Davidson, the acting governor of Madras, and the Nabob Wallak-Jah, by which it was stipulated that his highness should annually pay four lacs of pagodas as a military subsidy to the company, and set aside a fund every year of 12 lacs, in liquidation of his debt to his private creditors, being British subjects, and of his debt to the company. The private creditors, according to the orders of the court of Directors, were to consist of 3 classes only, the other debts of the Nabob not having at that time fallen under their notice. The 3 classes consisted of, 1. The debt distinguished by the name of the Consolidated Debt of 1767, amounting 726 to 7,96,445 pagodas; 2. The old Cavalry Debt, 6,90,624 pagodas; 3. The Consolidated Debt of 1777, 54,98,500 pagodas, making a total of 69,85,570 pagodas, or, in British money, 2,794,228l.?These private creditors were called upon to inscribe their names in a register, and hence these 3 classes of debts were denominated the registered debts of the Nabob of Arcot. The hon. gent. said, he mentioned this circumstance, that gentlemen, when he spoke of the registered debts, might understand his meaning without further explanation, and comprehend what debts were included under that denomination. He could specify the regulations by which the court of directors fixed the proportion of the 12 lacs of pagodas, which was to be employed in liquidation of the claims of the private creditors, and the part which was to he appropriated to the discharge of the debt to the company; but he was fearful of being led too touch into detail, and of occupying too much of the time of the house. It was sufficient to say that he possessed a copy of these regulations, and should be ready to produce them, if any gentleman should wish to hear the statement. In Feb, 1787, a new treaty was entered into between the Nabob Wallak Jah and sir Archibald Campbell, then governor of Madras, by which it was agreed that the military subsidy, to be in future paid by his highness in time of peace, should be 9 lacs of pagodas, and that 4-5th of the revenues of the Carnatic should be appropriated to the use of the company in case either of the parties should be at war, for the treaty was both offensive and defensive. Twelve lacs of pagodas, as by Mr. Davidson's treaty, were to be annually contributed for the discharge both of the private and public debts of the Nabob, subject to the company's regulations, to which he had before alluded. A few years afterwards it was found, so dilatory had the Nabob been in his payments, that an arrear of about 19 lacs, had accrued under the two before-mentioned treaties. At the close of 1789, Tippo Sultaun, the king of Mysore, made an attack upon the ally of the company, the Travancore Rajah. The late marquis Cornwallis, then governor-general, went to the assistance of the Rajah, and demanded from time Nabob of the Carnatic, the contribution stipulated by his treaty with sir A. Campbell. The 4-5th's of the revenues were, however, so irregularly paid, that a considerable arrear 727 was soon found to exist; the supplies of grain and cattle were so tardily provided by the Nabob's servants, that the service suffered considerable detriment. On these two grounds, the marquis Cornwallis found himself under the necessity of assuming pro tempore the civil in addition to the military government of the Carnatic, and the entire management of the revenues. At the close of this war which was brought to a glorious termination in 1792, the marquis Cornwallis returned the country into the hands of the Nabob, and formed a new treaty with his highness, by which it was stipulated that 9 lacs of pagodas should in future be paid to the company, annually, as a military subsidy; and a new arrangement was made respecting the sum to be appropriated each year to the discharge of the Nabob's debts. The marquis being convinced by the representation of the Nabob that his revenues were not adequate to so large an annual payment as 12 Lacs, in liquidation of debts, and being desirous of manifesting a spirit of forbearance, and an example of moderation, consented that only 6,21,105 pagodas should be annually applied in satisfaction of the claims of the private creditors only; the debt to the company not being expunged, but left to future investigation, and to the arbitration and decision of the marquis Cornwallis himself: this reference was occasioned by some disputes in the accounts, which were not easy of adjustment.?The next treaty which he should have occasion to mention, was concluded in July, 1801, between Aseem ul Dowlah, the present Nabob of the Carnatic, and lord Clive, now earl Powis, then governor of Madras. By this treaty it was provided that the civil and military government of the Carnatic, and the full and exclusive administration of the revenues, (with the reserve of a portion to be appropriated to the maintenance of the Nabob, and for the support of his dignity,) should be vested in the hands of the East-India co.; and that the 6,21,105 pagodas, as by marquis Cornwallis's treaty, should be annually applied to the discharge of the registered debts. This treaty with Azeem ul Dowlah, though last in order of time, was first in point of importance, because it was the foundation of the arrangement in July 1805, between the company and the creditors of the late Nabobs. What effect, said the hon. gent., had been produced by the enactment of the statute of 1784, and the several treaties which grew out of it, and 728 which he had here described? With respect to the debt of the Nabob to the company, he was not called upon to enter into the subject, as his bill related only to the private creditors; nor was the question at the present moment very interesting; for whatever the debt might be, it must, in consequence of the superior productiveness of the Carnatic revenues under British management, be in a daily state of diminution, and at no very distant day be entirely annihilated. As to the effect upon the claims of the private creditors, the house will learn with satisfaction, that in May, 1804, the registered debts were completely liquidated. The directors were however aware, when upon the conclusion of Mr. Davidson's treaty, they ordered the participation of the 12 lacs to be confined to the 3 classes, which alone at that time had engaged their attention, and which after wards went by the name of the registered debts, that further sums were owing from the Nabob. In those orders they stated that, according to report, the Nabob had contracted further debts, and that if any of them were due to British subjects, their presidencies were to give no countenance to them until a full investigation had taken place; a report had been made to the court of directors, and their orders had been received. In consequence of these directions, all persons were called upon to deliver their claims to a committee, who were appointed to receive and investigate them. This committee sat at Madras front 1785 to 1791, and took into consideration all the cases which were brought before them. Their report had been sent to the court of directors: and it was for a more efficient investigation of the claims upon which they had reported, and also for the examination of debts subsequently contracted; that the present arrangement had been established. The hon. gent. said he was hound here to notice, that some of the debts contained in the report from the Madras committee had been discharged by the orders of the company. He particularly alluded to the new cavalry loan, called new, to distinguish it from the old cavalry loan, one of the registered debts. The new cavalry loan was contracted during the second Mysore war with Hyder Ally, which commenced in 1780, and was advanced to the Nabob Wallak Jah, at a critical moment when the public service required it, for the purpose of discharging arrears of pay to his officers and troops, who were about to 729 break out into an alarming state of mutiny and insurrection; so just were these demands, and so embarrassed were many of these creditors in their circumstances, that the court of directors ordered this debt to be discharged, in the same proportion as the old cavalry debt, out of their part of the twelve lacs of pagodas, leaving themselves at a future time to reclaim upon the Nabob. The sum thus paid, appeared by lord Clive's treaty with Azeem ul Dowlah in 1801, to have constituted at that time a part of the debt from his highness to the company. All the other unconsolidated debts were now to undergo a strict. enquiry. Some of them were contracted by the Nabob Wallak Jah, antecedently to the promulgation of the statute of 1784 at Madras, in Feb. 1785, others by his highness subsequently to that period. Others were contracted after the year 1795, when Wallak Jah died, by his eldest son and successor Omdut al Omrah; others by the Ameer ul Omrah, second son of the Nabob, who died before his father. The Ameer had been prime minister to his father the Nabob, and all the property justly liable to pay his private debts, was, by a practice not uncommon in the native governments of India, seized by the Nabob. Hence to that amount the Nabob Wallak Jah was considered liable to the Ameer's debts, and to that amount the fair creditors of the Ameer were entitled to the benefits of the arrangement now under consideration. The East-India co. being of opinion that to pay without distinction all the numerous demands before stated, would be wasteful and unwarrantable prodigality, and that indiscriminately to reject all, would be the grossest injustice and cruelty, many of the debts having been contracted for civil and military services actually performed, or other fair considerations, came to an agreement with the private creditors of the late Nabobs of the Carnatic, to set aside an annual fund of 3,40,000 pagodas, with interest from May, 1804, the period of the extinction of the registered debts. This sum was first to be applied to the discharge of all claims approved in a manner which he should afterwards describe, and the surplus was to form a sinking fund for the redemption of the capital. That the East-India co. by the adoption of this measure, acted most honourably, most justly, and most laudably, would not, he believed, be denied. If the revenues were in the hands of the present Nabob, every gent. must allow that it would be for the honour and 730 dignity of his highness, and that it would mark the equitable disposition of his mind, to appropriate a part of them in discharge of the just debts of his uncle Omdut ul Omrah, and his grandfather Wallak Jah; and the East-India co., as grantees of the Nabob, were bound in honour to pursue the same course. So forcibly indeed was that honourable obligation felt by the court of directors, that they had not, as when the revenues were in the possession of the late Nabobs, confined their care, as directed by the acts of parliament, to the interests of British creditors only, but allowed native creditors also to prefer their claims. It was likewise to be taken into the account, that when the Nabobs contracted these debts, they had no other means of payment than the revenues of their country, and to no other resource could their creditors look for the liquidation of their demands. Many of them, indeed, had received tuncas, or assignments, upon the revenues from the Nabob, directed to the Aumildars, or collectors, who nevertheless could not, or would not satisfy them. Hence the hon. gent. contended that, although the revenues were not strictly bound in mortgage, they were virtually pledged, into whatever hands they might fall, to the discharge of every bonâ fide claim. It was further to be considered, that the act of 1784, by directing the East-India co. to establish, in concert with the Nabob, a fund out of his revenues for the liquidation of his debts, recognized the principle that his revenues were justly applicable in such a measure. The 33d of the king, c. 52. sect. 146. by repealing many parts of the act of 1784, while it specifically retained the clauses relating to the Nabob's debts, again acknowledged the same principle. In pursuance of that principle, twice solemnly recognized by Parliament, the East-India co. had now consented that 3,40,000 pagodas should be annually set aside for the gradual liquidation of all the just debts of the late Nabobs. Had the directors acted otherwise, it would have been fairly imputable to them that, while the revenues were not their own, and their own property could not be touched, they were ready and willing, in conformity to the directions of the legislature, to aid British creditors in the recovery of their debts; but now the revenues belonged to themselves, now their own coffers might suffer, and their own treasury be affected, they turned a deaf ear to the creditors, forgot 731 the spirit which governed the legislature, and pursued a contracted, a mean, and a selfish policy. Nay, the British creditors, whose demands were in existence before the promulgation at Madras of the act of 1784, would have a still stronger case against the court of directors, as they might say, "Now the revenues of the Carnatic are in your possession, you pay no attention to our claims; but had they not been granted away by the Nabob, you were bound in law to assist us in the recovery of our just debts, you could not refuse your aid. Thus we are placed in a worse situation now the Carnatic revenues are in the hands of our countrymen, than when they were the property of a foreign prince." Enough, he trusted, had been said to make it appear, that in honour, in justice, in regard to the principle twice sanctioned by Parliament, the East-India co. were bound to provide a fund out of the revenues of the?Carnatic, for liquidating the bonâ fide debts of late Nabobs. But it might be asked on what conditions was the continuance of that fund to depend? The first was, "that it shall be annually set aside so long as the administration of the the revenues of the Carnatic shall be vested in the East-India co." It was needless to shew that, if the revenues were placed in the hands of the Nabob, or in any other hands, the obligation on the part of the East-India co. to provide for the debts of the Nabobs, would no longer exist. If there were any gentlemen within the walls of parliament who, because they disapproved the political occurrences which had led to the treaty of assignment with Azeem ul Dowlah in 1801, or because they thought the title of the East-India co. to the revenues of the Carnatic to be wrongful, would therefore unsettle the system which had been established nearly 5 years, and restore things to the status quo, as before the treaty of 1801, such gentlemen could entertain no objection to this measure; because, as soon as their favourite scheme of restitution was accomplished, the deed of covenants was, by a special proviso, to become null and void. Nay, such gentlemen must rather approve the deed; for, being desirous to place the revenues in the possession of the Nabob, they must be glad that such a portion of the Carnatic revenues was from year to year to be applied, not to British purposes, but to the concerns of the Nabob. If due attention were paid to the consideration that the fund was to cease 732 when the East-India co. had no longer possession of the Carnatic revenue, gentlemen would see that it was not now the time to argue the general questions, whether the musnud of the Carnatic was forfeited by the conduct of Wallak Jah, and Omdut ul Omrah; whether it was right to set aside Tajul Omarah, the legitimate or natural son of Omdut ul Omrah, to raise Azeem ul Dowlah to the musnud, and receive from him a grant of the revenues: such questions had no strict connection with the subject under deliberation, and had better, if necessary, be debated separately, not drawn collaterally into discussion in any of the stages of this bill. The question was not, what was the title of the East-India co. to the Carnatic revenues: not how they came by the possession of them: but whether, whilst they remained in possession, they had not done right in applying annually a part of them in satisfying the claims of such real creditors of the late Nabobs, as had an equitable lien upon those revenues? The other condition was, "that the company should annually set apart in their treasury, at Madras, the sum of 3 lacs and 40,000 pagodas, if, after defraying all the charges of collecting the said revenues, so much shall be realized to, and be received therefrom by, the said company, &." The propriety of this condition was too obvious to need any comment. The house would learn with pleasure, that there was no chance of any interruption to the agreement arising from a diminution of the Carnatic revenues. As soon as the accounts shall be under the examination of the house, the hon. gent. said he believed it would appear that the net surplus for the year 1803–4, over and above the military subsidy of nine lacs, was about 340,000l. British money, a surplus exceeding that of the first year that the Carnatic was under British management. The surplus of that year, as stated by his noble friend, the late president of the board of controul (lord Castlereagh), in his budget speech of 1803, was only 269,000l. It was obvious that, without any improvement in the management of the revenues, the surplus of future year must be greater than that of the year 1803–4, as from May, 1804, when the registered debts were completely liquidated, the annual fund for the discharge of debts was no longer, as by marquis Corwallis's treaty, 6,21,105 pagodas, but only 3,40,000 pagodas. The difference, therefore, constituted a resource in the hands of the di 733 rectors, for the diminution of the debt from the Nabob to the company, or for any other useful purpose. This difference amounted to about 112,442l. sterling, and being added to the surplus of 1803–4, would make the surplus of subsequent years rather more than 450,000l. Such was the increase of revenue under British care, while the Nabob lived, not in the embarrassed condition of his predecessors on the musnud, but in a state of comfort, affluence, and splendour. Such were the fruits derived from that undivided government which the late marquis Cornwallis wished to establish, as appeared from the following extract of his letter to the court of directors, dated the 10th of Aug. 1790: "I must freely own," says the noble marquis, "that I could not venture to propose any plan, on the success of which I could have any firm reliance, unless the Nabob could be induced by a large annual revenue, regularly paid, and properly secured to him, to surrender the management of his country for a long term of years, to the company.—The Nabob's age, his long connection with us, his right to the possession of the country, which, however, without our assistance, would have been but of little value to him, and exaggerated accounts of former services, may furnish topics for popular declamation, and may possibly engage the nation, from mistaken ideas of humanity, to support a system of cruelty and oppression; but whilst I feel conscious that I am endeavouring to promote the happiness of mankind, and the good of my country, I shall give very little weight to such considerations, and should conceive that I had not performed the duty of the high and responsible office in which you did me the honour to place me, if I did not declare, that the present mixed government cannot prosper, even in the best hands in which your part of it can be placed; and that unless sonic such plan as that Which I have proposed should be adopted, the inhabitants of the Carnatic must continue to be wretched, the Nabob must remain an indigent bankrupt, and his country an useless and expensive burthen to the company, and to the nation." This, said the hon. gent. was a sufficient proof that the late marquis Cornwallis entertained a just conception of the best mode of promoting the British interests in India, and establishing the happiness of the native states connected with the company. The recommendation of his lordship was, in 1801, effected upon a more 734 extensive scale by lord Wellesley, and in this respect the system of both, although it was the fashion of the day to point out the variances in their plans, was precisely the same. The hon. gent. added that his only intention was to state the advantages resulting from the de facto government of the Carnatic; whether, when its origin was taken into consideration, it was a government de jure, he would not now pronounce any opinion, as the question ought to have no place, for the reasons he had before adduced, in the discussions of the bill he should have the honour to propose. Having explained the origin, amount, and conditions of the fund to be applied, under the directions of the deed, to the liquidation of the just debts of the late Nabobs of the Carnatic, he then proceeded to state the mode to be employed in ascertaining the bonâ fide claims, in separating the real from the fictitious creditor. Three commissioners were appointed by the East-India co. with the concurrence of the creditors, for the purpose of examining the origin, nature, validity, and justice of every individual claim, and each claimant was bound to prove his debt. This proceeding was in strict conformity to the principle laid down by the late Mr. Burke, in his famous speech on this subject in 1785. "Enquiry," said that eloquent orator and sagacious statesman, "should precede payment, the onus probandi should be laid on the claimant." Both the parties had covenanted to submit, without appeal, to the decision of the commissioners, who were, however, restricted from allowing any claim which had its foundation in presents, gifts, or gratuitous allowances (other than the reasonable fees of lawyers, physicians, &.), contrary to the acts of parliament in such cases provided. There was also another commission in India, which was, to act in obedience to the instructions of the commissioner at home, and report to them all the information and evidence they should be able to collect. That commission was also empowered to receive claims, for the sake of the convenience of those who might wish to prefer them in India, to hear all the evidence in support of, or in opposition to them, and to transmit it to the English commissioners, in whom alone the power of final adjudication was vested. The commissioners in England had proceeded, in execution of their official duties, to search every document tending to give them general information of a useful na- 735 ture; they had examined with particular care all the proceedings of the committee at Madras, and looked into the nature and extent of a great variety of the claims. They had not, however, given judgment in any case, and the ground of this conduct, which he should hereafter state, would shew the origin of the present application to parliament. But although the commissioners had been prevented from exercising powers of a judicial nature, they had issued notices, and published them in the Gazette, and periodical papers, for the purpose of ascertaining the number of the claimants, and amount of the claims, which certainly was as considerable as stated by an hon. gent. (Mr. Francis) on a former night, and had taken every other step which appeared to them necessary for the furtherance of the important objects of the commission. But why had they not proceeded to adjudicate? this was now to be explained. A general outline or sketch of what was proposed to be detailed in the deed was sent by the court of directors to the commissioners, by which they were instructed "to found their proceedings in all cases on the voluntary oath of the persons appearing or called before them." By the deed, however, as would appear by the following extract from the 19th clause, a discretion, as to the mode of evidence to be required, was vested in the commissioners, "who are to be at liberty to receive proof by the testimony vivâ voce, or by examination on written interrogatories, or by affidavit of witnesses, and by production of written documents, and by the examination of the parties, and by reference to the accounts and vouchers of the said several Nabobs, and the said Ameer, and the proceedings of the said united company, and their court of directors, and committees, and of their governments abroad, and any committees, or officers acting under such officers, or otherwise, as shall be satisfactory to the said commissioners in England." The hon. gent. said, that he must request the attention of the house also to the last clause of the deed, which was as follows: "It is hereby declared and deed, that in case the said commissioners in England shall be of opinion that the powers hereby intended to be vested in them are insufficient for the execution of the trusts reposed, according to the true intent end meaning of these presents, and that it is necessary they should be empowered to administer oaths, or compel the attendance and examination of par- 736 ties, or witnesses on oath, or the production of papers, or that they should be invested with any powers, which cannot be vested in them without the authority of parliament, or that the trusts, intents, and purposes of these presents cannot effectually be carried into execution, according to the true intent and meaning of these presents, then, and in any such case, all the said parties hereto, and their respective successors, executors, administrators, and assigns, shall and will use their best and utmost endeavours to procure such act, or acts of parliament, to be passed from time to time, as the said commissioners in England shall think necessary or adviseable, for the purposes aforesaid, or any of them." The hon. gent. stated, that the commissioners were desirous of carrying into effect the evident preference of the parties, and calling, in all cases, for voluntary oaths; but they entertained doubts of the propriety of the proceeding. In a letter to Mr. Ramsay, dated the 27th of July, 1805, they observed, that "however prevalent the usage of administering such voluntary oaths has long been, and however anxious we may be to conform ourselves to the intention of the parties in this point, yet, after an opinion which, as we are informed, has been very recently expressed by the highest legal authority, upon the illegality of administering such oaths, it seems incumbent upon us, for the sake of all who are concerned, the East-India co., the bonâ fide creditors, and ourselves, to take the best means of informing our judgment before we issue notices, requiring all persons to take this voluntary oath previous to their evidence being received; for it is hardly necessary to state that we ought not to require any one to take an oath which no one is legally authorized to administer. We would therefore submit it to the parties, whether, as the most effectual and speedy method of relieving them and our. selves from this difficulty, which meets us at the outset of the business, it would not be desirable for them to take the joint opinion of the law-officers of the crown, and the counsel to the East-India co., on this question, the importance of which, in its application to this case, is too obvious to require comment. If those gentlemen should be of opinion that magistrates, in such a case as the present, are justifiable in administering a voluntary oath, we should feel ourselves warranted by the sanction of such respectable authorities, to stain con- 737 formity to the intention of the parties, and to refuse ally testimony which is not tendered. on oath. If they should entertain a contrary opinion, the? parties and ourselves will have the satisfaction of knowing that we have no discretion upon the subject, and that we are under the necessity of receiving and deciding upon testimony, not on oath, because an oath cannot with propriety be required.—Whatever may be the result of that opinion, we should be Much concerned if the readiness we express to proceed upon such evidence only, as the parties have considered to?be the best that could be obtained, without the interference of parliament, should lead them to conclude that, in our judgment, such evidence would be as effectual for the execution of the trusts reposed in us, as that which is under the sanction of an oath, administered in the ordinary course of judicial proceedings. On the contrary, we think ourselves bound to take this opportunity of declaring, and we feel ourselves more particularly called upon to do so, by the provision of the 17th clause of the plan, and the last clause in the deed, that, after having examined and considered the extent and nature of many of the claims contained in the papers and documents you have from time to time transmitted to us, we are persuaded that it will not be in our power to investigate, and decide on the whole of them, with the same degree of satisfaction to all the parties concerned, as if we were legally authorized to examine persons regularly on oath. As soon, however, as we are furnished with the legal opinion, which we have requested, upon the point which forms the more immediate subject of our present communication, we shall adopt, without delay, such measures, and such mode of proceeding, as may appear to us best calculated, under the existing circumstances, for the attainment of the object of our commission. We beg the favour of yob to take the earliest opportunity of communicating his letter to the hon. chairman, and Court of directors. We have the honour to be, &. R. Ryder; B. Hobhouse; Th. Cockburne."—The hon. gent. observed, that as this was the first occasion which bad occurred of mentioning, the names of the commissioners, he took the opportunity of informing the house that his hon. friend first named (Mr. Ryder) had been compelled, by weak and tender health, which no man lamented more than himself, 738 to resign his situation, so that the commission had lost his important services. He did make this observation in derogation of the considerabled assistance received from his hon. friend's successors (Mr. Horner), a gent. in the profession of the commissioners, from which the extract which had been read was taken, to the three eminent Counsel whose opinion was desired, and the following was their. answer: "After what has fallen from the high authority alluded to, and from other judges on the bench We are obliged to say, that at least so much doubt is thrown upon the legality of administering voluntary oaths that we cannot say that they may be administered with safety and propriety, nor can we advise the commissioners to require them to be administered. (Signed "Sp. perceval; V. Gibbs; W. Adam."#x2014;W. Adam—The following extract of a letter from the commissioner to Mr. Ramsay, dated Aug. 15, 1805, would shew the impression produced upon receiving the sentiments of these learned authorities, for whose judgment they, in common, he believed. he might say, with the house, and the whole nation, felt the highest respect. Having acknowledged the receipt of the letter from the India-house, containing the opinion of the counsel, they proceeded thus: "The result of the reference to the legal authorities, who have been consulted on that subject, of course makes it impossible for us to require any oath at all, and only serves to confirm us in the opinion we gave in the concluding part of our letter of the 27th of July. Under these circumstances, we feel it incumbent upon us, in justice to the parties, as well as to ourselves, to express that opinion, in the words of the last clause of the deed, viz. that the powers now vested in us are insufficient for the execution to the true intent and meaning of that instrument."—The house had now heard the circumstance which led to the application to parliament, and occasioned him to move for leave to bring in a bill. When the bill was introduced, the house would find no clause by which parliament confirmed or sanctioned the agreement of July,1805, between the East-India co. and the creditors of the late Nobobs of the Carnatic. That agreement had been correctly drawn; and formally executed by the parties, and had received the sanction of the board of commissioners for the af- 739 fairs of India, where the law had placed full power and authority to superintend, direct, and controul all concerns and operations respecting the civil and military government, and the revenues of the company's territories and acquisitions in the East Indies." The deed was in a constant course of operation, and the commissioners had long acted in the discharge of their official functions. Hence the object of the bill was not to solicit a parliamentary ratification of the deed of covenants, but to obtain stronger powers for the commissioners, in order to the more effectual attainment of substantial justice. With this view it was proposed to give to the commissioners a power to examine upon oath, and subject the person who broke it to the penalties of perjury. They were also to have a power of summoning witnesses, and calling for the production of papers, but they were not armed with the strong authority committed to the navel, and other parliamentary commissioners, because the commission, though of great public importance, was technically speaking, of a private nature. On this ground no compulsory process was put into the hands of the commissioners, but the enforcement of obedience, the punishment of disobedience, and the recovery of damages for a breach of the statute, if the proposed bill should pass into a law, was left to the ordinary course of the courts of justice. Although this enlargement of the powers of the commissioners was the great object of the bill, it was naturally considered, as an application was to be made to parliament, what other salutary provisions could be added. There was one, which as it fell to his lot to move the bill, it was his duty to explain to the house: it related to the transfers of the property of successful claimants; that property, it was unnecessary for him to state, was but a mere chose en action, and therefore a vendee or transferee would possess but an equitable interest, and if he had occasion to sue for interest, or principal, must bring his action in the name of the original claimant, his executors, and his executors' executors. The intended clause was to give the transferee the legal in addition to the equitable interest, and to vest him with all the rights of the transferor. It was proposed, also to protect the transfers, &. from fraudulent counterfeiting, by punishing the crime, not with death, as in forgery of bills of exchange, but with transportation (as was not, he be- 740 lieved, unusual, where property far less considerable was at stake), or with lesser punishment at the discretion of the court.—The hon. gent, said, that his anxiety to possess the house of all the information on the subject, had led him into so great length. He had stated from the year 1784, when parliament first established regulations respecting the debts of the Nabob of Arcot, the funds which had from time to time been appropriated for their discharge, and the effects produced by the successive treaties and arrangements; he had shewn, and he trusted satisfactorily, the justice and propriety of the agreement which in July 1805, had been made between the East-India company and the creditors of the late Nabobs; he had, also, explained the grounds of the present application to parliament, and the leading provisions in the bill. He trusted that the decision of parliament, whatever it might be, would be speedy. The commissioners were unwilling longer to remain in a state of inactivity as to the most important part of a of their duty, namely, the adjudication of claims. He had every reason to believe that many of the claimants were in the greatest state of pecuniary embarrassment; their claims should, as soon as possible, be brought to a decision; that, if solid, the parties might possess means of relieving their distress, and, if unfounded, they might be taught no longer to depend upon an unsubstantial resource, or to lean upon a broken reed.—The hon. gent. said, that he should here sit down; but that he was under the necessity of saying a few words respecting himself. There were many gentlemen in the house who could testify how unwilling lie had been to appear in the situation in which he now stood, and how glad he should have been if any other gentleman would have brought forward this measure. One, and not the least of his objections was, that it was awkward,if not unusual, for a member of parliament to move that stronger powers should be given to a commission, of winch he formed a part, which the was equivalent to an application for stronger powers to be confided to himself. Both parties, however, had urgently requested him to stand forward on this occasion; upon the ground that a commissioner; who experienced the difficulties arising from want of powers, would be best able to explain them to the house. Had the commission been constructed as it was originally formed, and his hon. friend (Mr. Ry- 741 der) had still continued the commissioner, the argument would have been very forcible; but, when addressed to himself, it had no weight. His scruples at length gave way to intreaty: he should have been better satisfied if any other gentleman had introduced the measure to the notice of parliament, and any other gentleman, he was sure, would have done greater justice to the cause of the parties. After having stated, that if the house gave leave to bring in the bill, which was already printed, and read it a first time to-morrow, it was his intention to allow a sufficient interval for consideration before the second reading, the hon. gent. concluded with moving, "that leave be given to bring in a bill for enabling the Commissioners acting in execution of an agreement made between the East-India co. and the private Creditors of the Nabobs of the Carnatic, the better to carry the same into effect."