HC Deb 07 June 1880 vol 252 cc1334-5
GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR

asked the Secretary to the Treasury, Whether, under the instructions of the Treasury to the War Office, at page 17 of the Public Accounts Committee's Report of 1880, any and what publicity will be given to the use of funds voted for the Artillery in Vote 1 of the Army Estimates, so that Members of Parliament may have an opportunity of challenging the misapplication of such funds in case of any portions being used for paying the General Staff of the Army, and so misappropriating the moneys from the service of the Artillery, for which Parliament granted these funds?

LORD FREDERICK CAVENDISH

I have to reply, as I have replied before, that the Treasury has issued no new instructions on the subject of my hon. and gallant Friend's Question. It has only stated, with some minuteness, the existing law and practice. The House of Commons grants, in one total, the amount demanded for the pay, allowances, and other charges of Her Majesty's Forces, upon the understanding that the money so granted will be applied generally in the manner stated in detail in the Estimates. If, within the Vote, an excess should arise upon one sub-head, it can, but only with Treasury assent, be made good from a surplus upon another sub-head within the same Vote. But an excess upon an item within a sub-head may be made good out of a surplus upon another item within the same sub-head by the Secretary of State without Treasury authority. It might, therefore, be competent for the Secretary of State to apply a saving arising, say, upon the item Artillery, of the sub-head C of Vote 1, to meet a deficiency upon the item Cavalry, within the same sub-head. But it must be recollected that the pay and allowances of each arm are regulated by Warrant, and can only be altered with the sanction of the Treasury. Therefore, a surplus on item Artillery cannot be applied to increase the pay or allowances of the Cavalry without Treasury sanction; and the real discretion of the Secretary of State is, therefore, limited to variations in number, in which, again, he is fettered by the general limit of the numbers voted. Further, the Controller and Auditor General would, no doubt, call attention in his Report to any notable variation from the application of the money in the manner indicated in the Estimates, which would be brought to his attention by the detailed account on page 76 of the Army Appropriation Account. This detailed statement fully answers my hon. and gallant Friend's Question with respect to the variations in the expenditure, of the sum of £4,484,534, reported to the Controller and Auditor General as expended upon regimental pay under sub-head C in 1878–9.