HC Deb 06 May 1847 vol 92 cc476-91

MR. BRIGHT, in moving for a Select Committee to inquire into the progress of the Cultivation of Cotton in India, said: I have presented a petition from the Chamber of Commerce of Manchester, as well as petitions from several other bodies, praying the House to grant an inquiry for which I am about to move; and I can say, with a perfect knowledge of the fact, that there is a strong wish that the inquiry should be granted, and that at this time some means should be taken to increase the supply of the raw material of the cotton manufacture. I should have felt confident at any time that permission to have this inquiry would be granted; but under the present circumstances of the manufacturing districts, I feel it to be more important than at any former period, and more strongly incumbent on the House to grant it. I do believe that what potatoes are to Ireland, cotton is to Lancashire; and that as you have in Ireland a calamity unparalleled in consequence of the failure of the staple food of the people, so if we could conceive the raw material of the cotton manufacture greatly to fail, we should see calamities overspread this country to equal if not exceed that which has overtaken the population of Ireland. And perhaps it may be necessary to refer to the progress and present condition of the cotton trade, in order to show that it is not a subject of ordinary importance I am submitting to the House. It is perhaps impossible to find in all the annals of human industry a parallel for the rise and extraordinary progress of the cotton manufacture. There are persons now living who were living when the whole annual value of our cotton manufacture was 200,000l. That was the state of things at the accession of George III. But even so late as 1786 all our imports of cotton did not reach 20,000,000 lbs. From that time to this, especially in latter years, the progress has been very rapid. In 1846, the Consumption reached 1,585,900 bales, or upwards of 614,000,000 lbs. It appears by a return that 316,000 persons are employed within cotton mills. I happen to know that estimate is below the truth. I have no doubt that 320,000 is below the actual number employed. It is a common estimate in the trade to allow 100l. of capital for each person employed, and that will give a capital directly invested in the trade of 31,600,000l. To give another proof of the importance of this trade, I may mention the fact that in 1844 the value of our exports in cotton yarn and goods was 25,805,000l., being somewhat more than half of the whole of the exports of this country. Mr. M'Culloch, in 1832, estimated that 1,400,000 persons subsisted by the cotton trade. It must be evident that the supply of the raw material of such a trade must be of the greatest importance. The question is not confined to the inhabitants of Lancashire and Cheshire. The full and free supply of the raw material must be looked on as a national benefit, the effects of which are continually extended. This year we have witnessed some of the results of a short supply of cotton. I can give one or two facts as to the failure of the cotton crop. The stock of cotton in our ports at the end of 1844 was 902,400 bales, or 33 weeks' consumption; 1845, 1,060,000 bales, or 35 weeks' consumption; 1846, 545,000 bales, or 18 weeks' consumption. Thus we reduced 35 weeks' consumption down to 18 weeks' consumption. The result has been a rise of from 4d. to 7d. a lb., more than 75 per cent; and the effect of such a change can he easily accertained by observing the stoppage of some of our mills altogether, while the greater part work but two, three, or four days a week. This state of things has been brought about by the state of the crop in the United States, which shows the following results: In 1844, 2,400,000 bales; in 1845, 2,100,000 bales; and for 1846, 2,000,000 bales for the estimated crop. The result of a short supply is, that the price has risen enormously, and thus has been brought about a condition of distress and difficulty never known before since the first bale of cotton was imported into this country. The question naturally arises, whence did we draw our supply in past years, and what probability is there of an adequate supply for the future? There was a time when the cotton consumed in this country came neither from the United States nor the East Indies. When in 1786 we consumed about 20,000,000 lbs., we drew our supplies from the following places: British West Indies, 5,800,000 lbs.; French and Spanish colonies, 5,500,000 lbs.; Dutch colonies. 1,600,000 lbs.; Portuguese colonies, 2,000,000 lbs.; Smyrna and Turkey, 5,000,000 lbs.; Total imports, 19,900,000 lbs. In 1789, cotton was first imported from India. In 1787, the United States first grew cotton. In 1792, the United States exported only 138,328 lbs.; but in 1793, the saw gin was invented, and the growth of cotton being consequently greatly increased, the United States in 1795 exported 5,276,306 lbs.; and this has greatly increased in subsequent years. But, coming down to a later period, it will be manifest how little progress India made as compared to the United States, by comparing the two periods of five years, ending in 1820 and in 1486:—

Countries Ending 1820. Bales. Ending 1846. Bales.
America 216,176 1,229,535
East Indies 122,142 184,979
Brazil 141,193 98,611
West Indies 41,529 14,866
Egyptian, none till 1823, when it was 5,623 51,762
Thus, American increase has been nearly 600 per cent; East Indian increase only 50 per cent, in the last twenty-six years. While such an enormous progress has been made by America, British India has made no progress at all, and is as stationary as possible with respect to its exports. In point of fact, in 1818 East India import was 247,659 bales; 1844, ditto, 237,596 bales, the highest of the last four years. In 1846, weekly consumption, 30,498 bales, of which American, 24,623 bales; East Indian, only 2,189. Not only has Indian cotton not increased in quantity, but it has not improved in quality. I have here short extracts from the letters of Liverpool brokers, which throw some light on this point. One says— The great bulk of the cotton from India, probably seven-eighths of it, is much the same as during the last twenty years; during the whole of which period, small parcels have occasionally been sent forward of improved quality, but the bulk remains much the same, and is still forwarded with a great deal of leaf, dirt, and seed, none of which is worth the freight. In some few cases the cotton is cleaned without injury to the staple; but in many instances, when cleaned, the injury to the staple counterbalances all the advantages of increased cleanliness. Average freight from New Orleans, ⅝d. per lb.; ditto from Bombay, ½d. to ⅝d. per 1b.: being 50 per cent heavier, in proportion to the value, on East India cottons. Another says— The cotton from Bombay is generally very dirty, and much discoloured, arising partly from a long land carriage, exposure to weather, and other difficulties of transit. The natives also mix with it dirt and seed, as they appear to have an interest in making the weight greater. East India cotton varies much in quality according to the season, but it is not a bit improved. I think I have said enough to show, that the existing state of circumstances is by no means satisfactory; that the inquiry I ask for is necessary; and that I am justified in pressing it upon the attention of Parliament. I want to have it ascertained, first, can India grow a sufficient quantity of cotton to supply our manufactories? and if she can, what are the obstacles which prevent her doing so? That India has grown cotton for centuries, is absolutely notorious. Many persons believed that at one time the whole world was supplied from it, although I do not think that position sufficiently proved. But this is quite certain, that, surrounded by the Indus, the Himalaya Mountains, and the Indian Ocean, there is a population of 150,000,000—that this immense population has been clothed for centuries in cotton—and that that article has been applied in every shape in which cloth is used; and we have therefore every reason to believe that at this moment there is a larger amount of cotton annually produced in India than in any other country in the world. Major General Briggs, some years ago, wrote an excellent pamphlet, in which he pointed out the great advantages of the growth of cotton to the cultivator in India, and to the manufacturer at home. He stated there were 200,000 square miles suitable to the growth of cotton, in which there was every variety of soil and climate, and every advantage which could be found in any other country. Yet no supply of cotton for this country had been forthcoming. In 1818, India exported to England and China 140,000,000 lbs. If the progress in the growth of the article had borne any proportion to that of the United States, we might now look for as full a supply of the raw material from India as we were in the habit of receiving from the United States. Now, I do not offer the House my opinions as positively conclusive on this question; bat I find them borne out by the reports of the East India Company. In 1836, the East India Company published reports of the proceedings which they had taken, and amongst them an immense amount of correspondence, all of which I have read. In 1822, the directors write to the Governor of Bombay— There is also considerable evidence afforded that no want will be experienced of a suitable soil and climate for raising this commodity to a large extent. The excellence of the quality seems to be established. In 1829, they say— We are strongly impressed with the opinion, that nothing but attention and perseverance is required to make Indian cotton wool a productive article of export to Europe, and there is no commercial object connected with our Indian possessions of greater national importance. Again— We have formerly received consignments of Surat cotton, which, in respect both of staple and cleanness, were greatly esteemed in the London market; and we now wish to procure a further supply of equal or superior goodness, which we are led to think might be obtained, if the processes of gathering and cleaning were conducted with sufficient care. After alluding to New Orleans and Georgia cotton, they say— And we are further informed, which is exceedingly material in the present consideration, that the Bombay cottons, particularly those of the growth of the districts near Surat and Broach, are little or nothing inferior to the upland American descriptions above named, the item of cleanness alone excepted, and that such cotton might readily be brought into competition with the upland American. In 1832 they write— It is, nevertheless, quite manifest that Indian cotton may be produced of fit quality and condition for the general purposes of the British manufactures. And Mr. Martin, superintendent of the farm in Guzerat, expresses —"a strong conviction that the quality of the staple might be essentially improved; and, perhaps, even enabled to compete with the New Orleans cotton in the English market. In 1839, they say— From the best information we have obtained from your records, and from other sources, there appears no reason to doubt, although this great desideratum has not yet been attained, that under proper management and superintendence, India is capable of producing cotton in quantity to compete with the cotton from North America, which the best Bombay cotton (Surat), cleaned by the 'churka,' often rivals. I find also it is stated in the annual re- port of the Agricultural and Horticultural Society of England, in 1839— The more the society gives its consideration to the improvement of this important culture (cotton), the more it becomes convinced that capital and skill are alone required to raise the indigenous cotton of the country—the parent stock whence all other lands have been supplied—to a standard worthy of a comparison with the productions of the west. Now I believe the East India Company hold these opinions quite honestly; for, during thirty years they have been making attempts to promote the cultivation of cotton. They met with many failures; but my belief is, that these arose from their having pursued the cultivation of cotton as amateurs, and not with the spirit and perseverance which private enterprise prompts. This was clearly proved by the fact of the inquiries sent to England as to how the saw-gin should be affixed. There were many accidents, and the machinery was burned by the carelessness of servants; but, making all these admissions, this fact remains, and cannot be refuted, that you have in India land calculated for the production of cotton; that you have a population the most docile, intelligent, and industrious, and labour far cheaper than you can by possibility have it in the United States. In point of fact, there is everything necessary except the possession of that capital by which improvements in cultivation can be carried on. The correspondence shows that some more general, more universal stimulus must be applied before the annual produce can be greatly increased. Now I have no wish—and I say so with the greatest sincerity—to bring any charges against the East India Company. I know the difficulties they have had to contend with in the management of the affairs of India. Their efforts have been honest, continuous, and meritorious, to a considerable extent with regard to this subject; they have spent 100,000l. in experiments to promote the cultivation of cotton; but yet they have failed—and I want a Committee to ascertain how it is they have failed. I propose to call before it officers now employed in this country by the Company, and others who have lived in India for many years; and I hope to find out what obstacles the Indian Government have found in the cultivation of cotton, and, if there be such, if they are capable of being overcome, as well as to see if any available steps have been left unemployed in developing the resources of that country, and affording us a sufficient supply of raw material. I hope the question will not become so imminent as to overwhelm us. If by any calamity our supplies were cut off. or greatly failed, it is impossible to paint too strongly the distress and difficulty which must overtake the most densely peopled portions of the kingdom. We have a large portion of our population dependent upon the supply of the raw material. A season may fail. It failed last year—it failed to some extent this year. But a frost coming too early, or a wind blowing from a particular point, too much wet or drought, or an undefinable worm, may produce the most disastrous effects. I will not speak of the danger of war; for the more we are bound together by commercial ties, the less danger is there of our committing the folly of going to war. But we ought not to forget that the whole of the cotton grown in America is produced by slave labour; and this, I think, all will admit, that no matter as to the period in which slavery may have existed, abolished it will ultimately be, either by peaceable or by violent means. Whether it comes to an end by peaceable means, or otherwise, there will, in all probability, be an interruption to the production of cotton; and the calamity which must in consequence fall on a part of the American Union, will be felt throughout the manufacturing districts of this country. I ask the House to grant this Committee for the sake of the trade dependent on the cultivation of cotton—for the sake of all the interests which are bound up with a free supply of the raw material of this article. The duty we owe to the manufacturing population, and a regard to our own safety, as well as our responsibility to that vast population of India which Providence has committed to our care, demand that we should use every means in our power to develop the resources of India, and to give prosperity and abundance to its vast population. I shall not enter further on a subject capable of much more development, but only say, that I am satisfied no hon. Member will oppose—as I am sure the Government will not—the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the cultivation of cotton in British India.

SIR J. HOBHOUSE

could assure the hon. Gentleman that it certainly was not the intention of the Government to oppose the appointment of this Committee; nor did he think that anything had been said by the hon. Member, bringing a sufficient charge against the East India Company, either of ignorance, or neglect of duty, to make it necessary to enter into detail. At the same time, it was but fair to that body of men who had with such unparalleled success for so many years governed that great country, to state shortly what had been done by them to promote the cultivation of cotton. As the Committee was to be granted, it would not be necessary for him to go into the various topics urged by the hon. Gentleman; otherwise it might be shown that he rather over-estimated the effect it was possible for any inquiry to have, if he supposed it would make the people of India—in our time, at least—producers of cotton to the extent of the people of America. Such competition appeared quite out of the question. There was such a difference between the natives of America and of India, that even under circumstances of much greater facility of production in India than at present, he could not flatter himself that, give what encouragement we might, there would be such a cultivation of cotton in India as to make this country (to adopt the hon. Gentleman's phrase) safe from the want of cotton, supposing the import from America should fail. One of the reasons why the cultivation of cotton bad somewhat fallen off in India was, that we were there importers of cotton goods ourselves, and had destroyed, to a great degree, the great cotton manufactures of India. What had become of the Dacca fabrics, the beautiful piece goods, the gossamers, as they were called? Why, we were at this moment clothing the natives of India with our own manufactures, instead of allowing them to weave their own goods, and wear their own cottons. The hon. Member had fairly allowed that the Indian Governments had not slept at their post; ever since 1780, continual efforts had been made to get valuable information with respect to the cultivation of this valuable plant in India. There were folios upon folios, containing reports of the way in which the plant had been cultivated, and of the efforts made to attain additional success in that cultivation. But it was not till 1828 that the first effort was made to cultivate foreign cotton, and that was made at the instance of Lord Ellenborough; who, aided by the Court of Directors, attempted to introduce the cultivation of foreign cotton into certain parts of the Bombay presidency; and two or three experimental farms were there established, with some success, to cultivate the American cotton. It was not until 1839, when Lord Auckland drew up a Minute which contained the whole history of the cultivation of the plant in India—perhaps one of the most valuable documents it was possible for any statesman to produce—that the attention of the Government was drawn to the best mode of cultivation. If the hon. Gentleman had waited for the production of the papers for which an hon. Baronet had moved, he would have seen that they embraced, not only Lord Auckland's Minute, but a series of most useful reports, which might almost have induced the hon. Gentleman to consider the appointment of the Committee superfluous. The Court of Directors took Lord Auckland's report into consideration; and it was determined that a gentleman connected with the East India Company—Captain Baylis, who was since dead—should be employed specially with a view to the introduction of cotton; and that not only American seed should be sent to India, but American planters, who might instruct the people in the most approved methods of cultivation. Captain Baylis, in 1840, proceeded to India with ten American planters, three of whom were stationed at Bombay and three at Madras; Captain Baylis accompanied the others to Bengal. The hon. Gentleman was somewhat mistaken as to the degree of success which attended the experiment. In the three presidencies it was certainly not uniform. The experiment failed in the north-western provinces, chiefly owing to two or three dry seasons, which rendered the soil unproductive, and discouraged the ryots; but in Marwa and other parts of India, the cultivation had succeeded; so that, whereas in 1842 there were only about 600 acres of American cotton grown, there were 15,000 acres in 1846. Last year, no less than 30,000 acres were under cultivation, and there were 200,000 acres now preparing for cotton, upon land, which, in some districts, would be let for a rent of 1s. an acre. Though the success of the experiment was admittedly not uniform—though in some parts of India the cultivation had not proceeded so rapidly as might have been anticipated, it was not correct to say that the experiment had not been attended with success. The specimens which he had seen of cotton produced in India, appeared to him—an uninstructed person, it was true—of superior quality; certainly some of them were very beautiful. Some cotton—the produce of the East Indies—had stood against New Orleans cotton last year, at from 5¾d. to 6½d. per lb. In cleaning and packing, indeed, the natives of India had not succeeded. But the hon. Gentleman knew what a change was made in the production of cotton by the introduction of Whitney's saw-gin, which had done as much for America as the steam-engine of Watt had for this country. It created that cultivation of cotton which had produced such vast results, and made a population which before knew little or nothing on the subject, the greatest cultivators of cotton in the world. As to the diminished imports of Indian cotton, it must be mentioned that the American cotton commanded the market to such an extent, that it was not worth while for the speculators in Indian cotton to bring it home under the circumstances which attended the state of the cotton market during the period to which the hon. Gentleman had alluded. It was true that there was a diminution last year, from various causes, of 23 per cent in the imports of Indian cotton to this country, and a diminution of 12½ per cent in the imports of Indian cotton to China; but he would remark, that although there was a slight duty of nine annas to the maund in China on that cotton, yet that importation had not fallen off more than one-half what the importation to this country had been diminished. Amongst the causes which might be assigned for the decrease in the importation, he would mention the extensive speculations in opium which had taken place recently, and which must necessarily have lessened the sum of money to be applied by the speculators to the export of cotton. The exports of opium from Bombay to China last year, were 1,094,178lbs. more than the year before; and it was quite clear that with such a quantity of opium exported, there could not be the same amount of money in the hands of the speculators in cotton in India. Then, the speculations in railways tended to decrease the capital applied to the importation of cotton; and, lastly, the number of freights taken up by the vessels which engaged in the import of breadstuff's had diminished the means of sending homo cotton from India. These were four causes which very materially tended to lessen the import of cotton this year. The hon. Gentleman, while he rather overrated the power of the Indian Government in this matter, had shadowed out what he supposed to be one means of promoting the cultivation of cotton in the East. He seemed to think that the mode in which the land was rented was such as did not tend to encourage that cultivation. But the hon. Gentleman was mistaken. The land assessment bad nothing to do with the cultivation of cotton or of anything else. Mr. Mill, the historian, had most completely shown that the land assessment was only of the nature of rent. It was proposed in 1839, that the Government should give a bonus to promote cotton cultivation. But the Indian Government of the day as well as the home authorities scouted the idea; they resolved to give such cultivation fair play, and no more. The hon. Gentleman had stated truly that the Indian Government had made great sacrifices to promote the production of cotton; they had spent within a short period 100,000l. on the experiments. They continued their exertions; and scarcely a mail went out without some communication in reference to what would be a great means of encouraging the cultivation of cotton in India, namely, the formation of railroads and canals. For of what use were districts for the production of cotton if it could not without great difficulty be sent down to the coast? This he thought the best mode of fostering the cultivation of cotton; he could not agree in the opinion that prizes ought to be given. [Mr. BRIGHT: I said that prizes had been. I rather deprecated the idea.] The Indian Government were now making roads and canals in districts where the cotton cultivation promised to be most successful. The hon. Gentleman, the late chairman of the Board of Directors (Sir J. W. Hogg), had intended to speak on the present occasion; but the hon. Gentleman, he was sorry to say, was prevented by a domestic calamity. He had no objection to the Committee, though he did not augur any great results; but every facility would be afforded for conducting the inquiry, and, perhaps, he could not conclude more appropriately than by reading the substance of a conversation which had taken place between Mr. Aspinall Turner, the chairman of the Manchester Commercial Association and Sir J. W. Hogg. After some discussion the conference closed as follows:— Sir James Hogg then said, ' As this matter will come before Parliament, have I your permission to state that you, and the Manchester gentlemen whom you represent, are satisfied with what the Company have done?' To which they replied, ' You may state, in as strong terms as you like, that we are not only satisfied, but very grateful to the Company for their recent measures. We have no wish to interfere, and we leave the further prosecution of the cotton experiments, in full confidence that you will do all that can be done.' The extract now read corroborated the statement he had already made, that the East India Company would not shrink from their duty; neither would they shrink from inquiry into a system of cultivation calculated, in their opinion, to promote the welfare of that empire which he contended they governed with credit to themselves and for the benefit of the country.

LORD G. BENTINCK

I am rather more sanguine than my right hon. Friend as to the good which may be derived from a full and entire investigation of this matter. My right hon. Friend despairs of our East Indian possessions ever being able to compete with the growth of cotton in America. But, Sir, a high authority, sitting in the old House of Commons in the place which corresponded with that now occupied by the hon. Member for Durham—I mean Mr. Huskisson—stated, that if they would take the course of affording due protection to the growth of cotton in our Indian possessions, that would happen with regard to cotton which had in earlier times happened in regard to indigo—that with due protection our Indian possessions would produce sufficient cotton to supply the demands not only of Great Britain, but of all the world besides; just as in former times all our indigo had been received from Guatemala; but, in consequence of protection being extended to it, the growth of the East Indies had supplanted that of Guatemala. And Mr. Huskisson said to this House, in addition— And recollect that every bale of cotton imported from our East Indian possessions is necessarily imported into this country in British bottoms. With such authority as that of Mr. Huskisson, then, I think that we need not despair, if sufficient encouragement be given, of seeing our East Indian possessions supply a large portion of cotton for the use of our manufactures in this country; but when the hon. Member for Durham told you that it was only in 1786 that the first pod of cotton was gathered in the United States of America he forgot to tell you also that the growth of cotton in America was fostered by protection—a duty of, I think, 1½d. a pound on all foreign cotton imported into the United States of America existed up to the very last year. Now, what are we doing? Whilst the land in India is subject to a tax—I care not what you call it, land-tax or Government rent—and is paying for the support of the Government either an assessment or a rent amounting in some places to 1¾d. per pound, and generally to more than 1d. per pound, on the average growth of cotton, you take off five-sixteenths of a penny per pound from the duty on American cotton, which up to 1845 it had paid. It cannot be denied the growth of cotton in our Indian possessions is put on a most unfair basis; and I hope that this point, altogether overlooked by the two free-traders who have preceded me in the discussion, will not be entirely forgotten in the Committee; and I still hope to see a fair protection given to the growth of cotton in our Indian possessions. India is, I think, entitled to that protection, and for this reason—the quantity of cotton imported from America in 1846, at the rate of 6d. per pound, will give an amount of no less than 15,000,000l. sterling, which we pay to the United States of America, now untaxed. At the same time we exported cotton manufactures to an amount little exceeding 1,000,000l. sterling—I think 1,056,000l.; but how stands the matter with respect to India? To our East Indian possessions and to Ceylon, in 1846, we exported cotton manufactures to an amount in value of above 4,500,000l. sterling; and I say, therefore, that our East Indian subjects, taking out cotton goods in return for their raw cotton, have some claim upon us to encourage the growth of raw cotton in that country. It is quite true, as the right hon. Gentleman has stated, that one reason why the cultivation of cotton has so much fallen off in our East Indian possessions, is, that we have supplanted the manufacture of cotton goods by the Hindoos; but if so, is not that in itself a strong claim, and one to be listened to—calling upon us, in return, to encourage the growth by them of the raw cotton. But there is another point which I hope the Committee will also be instructed to inquire into, and that is, the encouragement which the promotion of railways in the East Indies would give to the growth of cotton. My right hon. Friend touched upon this point; but he stated, I think, that he had in contemplation the antediluvian improvement of canals. The day, I should think, is gone by when anybody would dream of encouraging the construction of canals. [Sir J. HOBHOUSE: They are also useful for irrigation.] But my right hon. Friend hardly, if at all, alluded to the utility of railways; and I find it stated in the Economist, and other authorities, that the cost and mode of conveyance have much to say with regard to the cultivation of this plant. The mode in which the cotton is at present conveyed in the places where the greatest improvements have been introduced, is in carts, drawn by two bullocks together, at a rate of about twelve miles a day, each cart containing six bales of cotton of 120lbs. each; but the more ordinary course is for them to be carried in packs on the backs of the bullocks, each bullock carrying 240lbs. eight miles a day. These bullocks go together in large herds, each one splashing the other with mud. At night they he down in the roads, sometimes with the packs on their backs; or if not, then the packs are put on the dirty ground, and thus the cotton is so injured, so filled with mud and dirt, as to be almost useless. All that may be remedied by the Indian Government, supported by the Government at home, encouraging the construction of railways; and I hope that that part of the subject will not be overlooked in this Committee. Lord Hardinge, in a letter recently addressed to the East India Company, or to the Government at home, expressed his opinion that the construction of one particular railway in India would he equal to the saving of four regiments of infantry, the expense of which he set at the lowest at 50,000l. a year, or the interest of 1,000,000l., which would be enough to construct the railway in question; but Lord Hardinge added also that it must sufficiently appear to all, that in India the existence or non-existence of railways would frequently determine the question of peace or war. I therefore hope that in considering this question of the culture of cotton the value of improved modes of communication will be one of the first matters brought under the notice of the Committee. There is also one other question which I may venture now to mention, with a hope of being listened to, although last year if I had attempted to do so I should have been almost coughed down by the free-traders in this House. The matter is this—if we can be supplied by India with raw cotton for our manufactures, we shall be able to pay for it in our own manufactured goods, and although it was felt last year to be a matter of no consequence whatever whether we traded with a country which was disposed to take our manufactures, or with countries having high tariffs—although it was treated then as if it did not matter at all whether we were to pay in gold or in goods, and we were told that if we had to pay in gold in the long run it must come back, I venture to think that that is not the opinion at present entertained on 'Change in London, or Manchester, or Liverpool. It was, I recollect, about this time last year that, in answer to me, the then First Minister of the Crown, addressing me, uttered this memorable declaration—it was on the 4th of May, and this is The Times report:— The noble Lord said, that if we got the corn of France and the timber of Prussia, the great consideration was, what we should get them to take in return. Why, suppose they took nothing in return, what should we suffer from that? [Cheers and counter-cheers from the Protectionists.] On what principles does the noble Lord think foreign commerce is carried on? When we buy the brandies of France, they are not given to us—something is given in exchange for them. We cannot take the silks of France, the timber of Prussia, and the corn of Prussia, without paying for them—there is no mode of making purchases but by giving an equivalent for them. Well, but you say we shall send out gold for them: but, do you send out gold to those countries now? I have not seen any diminution in the gold of the Bank of England that could be attributed to this cause. If there has been a decrease in gold, it has been from our internal concerns. I have not seen that any great quantities of it have gone to Prussia. What will astonish you still more perhaps is, that I wish it had. [Cheers.] This country would be able to command a sufficient quantity of gold if it were required in the steady and legitimate course of trade. When a regular commerce is carried on, there can be no drain of gold; and even if they take nothing but gold, we can only procure that by transmitting our manufactures for that gold, and then purchasing corn and timber with it. I should not he alarmed, therefore, if there should be an export of gold from this country, knowing that we shall obtain that gold by exchanging our manufactures for it. No such export can take place as will derange our internal affairs, or derange the stability of our commerce. Now, Sir, the free-traders have got their will—the silks and the brandies of France, the timber and the corn of Russia, and more especially of America, have to be paid for; and the wish of the right hon. Gentleman is realized with a vengeance—for the United States of America have determined to take gold, and nothing but gold, in return for their corn; but I venture to say that the most rabid free-trader either on the Exchange of the city of London or on the Corn Exchange of Manchester or Liverpool would not now propound the doctrine that he wished it might he that foreign countries should take our gold in exchange for their corn. This, also, is a matter which ought, I think, to be considered by the Committee, with a view to ascertain whether, by restoring the duty on American cotton imported into this country, and by reducing the land-tax, or Government rent, imposed on the cotton lands in India, we might not obtain our cotton from a country satisfied to take payment in the cotton and other manufactures of this country, amounting in the year 1846 to the declared value of 4,500,000l. instead of giving a virtual monopoly of the supply of cotton to Great Britain to a country, insisting upon being paid, as the United States insists upon being paid, in gold only, and I believe in sovereigns of the last coinage, that there may be no loss in the weight, and maintaining in all things a high tariff against the produce and manufactures of the British nation.

On the noble Lord resuming his seat, the House was counted; and forty Members not being present, immediately adjourned, at a quarter past Eight o'clock.