HC Deb 06 May 1847 vol 92 cc462-76
SIR W. VERNER

rose, pursuant to notice, to call the attention of Her Majesty's Ministers to the sale and importation of firearms in Ireland. He begged to remind the House, that when the noble Lord introduced his measures relative to Ireland, he had taken occasion to mention a circumstance which had created great alarm in Ireland; namely, the importation and unprecedented sale of firearms. He then mentioned one or two instances which had come under his own immediate knowledge, and for the accuracy of which he could vouch. The one was the sale of 1,000 stand of arms in one district in the county in which he (Sir W. Verner) resided. The other was the sale of 100,000lb. weight of ammunition in a single day (a market-day) in a small town near his resi- dence, it being added, that had there been double the quantity it could have been easily disposed of. Another case that had been mentioned was that of a man who, having come to pay his rent, and having had 2l.. restored to him to purchase provisions with for his family, his observation was, that he could buy a very good gun with it. No notice had been taken by the Government of his statements; and he was anxious not to be supposed to have circulated without cause statements likely to create so much alarm. The matter bad, however, since assumed so serious a shape, that he felt himself, in his own defence, called on to bring before that House substantial proof that he was justified in the observations he had made. Before doing so, however, he desired to make one or two references to a measure which passed that House in 1843, called the Arms Bill. By that Act it was provided that no arms should be imported into Ireland, except under the license of the Lord Lieutenant, under a penalty of 50l., and a like penalty was imposed on the manufacture of arms within the country. By another clause it was not only required that the arms should be registered, but also that they should be branded. That Bill was passed in consequence of most serious representations to the Government, and it was founded on a body of the most conclusive evidence as to its necessity. The letters of Colonel Macgregor, and the reports of the constabulary in Ireland, had induced the Government at the time to call on the House to agree to the Bill. The measure, however, met with very great opposition. There was scarcely any Bill on record that had met with more. No less than seven Members of that House declared their determination to oppose it at every stage. Some said they would oppose it clause by clause; and one Member said, he would oppose it even word by word. At every stage of the Bill this opposition was continued. The Bill was introduced early in the Session; it was not read a third time till the 9th of August, and it did not receive the Royal Assent till the 22nd, two days only before Parliament was prorogued. Thus it took from near the commencement of the Session to the very close to pass that Bill into a law. If the right hon. Gentleman (Sir R. Peel), in the face of the greatest opposition that perhaps a Bill ever received, felt it incumbent upon him to pass this measure, was not such a measure ten times more necessary at present? Was it wisdom on the part of any Government to place arms in the hands of a starving people? Or would a people starve with arms in their hands? The people of Ireland were now becoming an armed population. A private letter which he had received from Queen's County, said— As I see you intend to bring the matter respecting arms before the House, I beg to take the liberty of stating, that the consequences will be most disastrous if the unlicensed sale of them be allowed any longer; and some means must be taken to prevent the assassin from using those already purchased by the peasantry. A most atrocious murder, I may say (as the victim is without hopes), was committed near Portarlington on Sunday night. John Wilson, Esq., of Killeen, had dined with a neighbouring gentleman (who lives only two fields from Mr. Wilson), and when a short distance from the house, going over a stile, a shot was fired at him, and three small bullets entered his breast, and were subsequently cut out behind the shoulder. Mr. Wilson is not a landlord or agent, but merely wished to prevent a path being made through his yard. On Thursday last a large quantity of arms was auctioned under the county inspector's lodgings, Tullamore, and every fellow is provided with some Birmingham manufacture. I myself saw a tall lad point out a long fusil to his comrade and say, 'There's a receipt for the hanging gale.' The county of Tipperary was one in which the greatest distress existed, and yet arms were sold to a greater extent than in any county in Ireland. The head constable of Clonmel, in a report submitted to the county inspector, said— I have to report that the under named persons have recently imported a large supply of guns, blunderbusses, and pistols, swords, and bayonets, which they are now disposing of to the public in this town at prices varying from 2s. 6d. to 30s. Four of those dealers sell by public auction in the streets, on fair-days and market-days; and it appears that the manufacturers of arms in Birmingham are not able to meet the demands made on them by purchasers from this country; in consequence of which, most of the arms now offered for sale have been procured from the different pawn-offices in London, and are of a second-hand description. The persons who usually purchase from the vendors are generally the lowest class of country people and servant boys; and persons labouring on the public works have been known to buy pistols from their weekly earnings. The Rev. Robert Carey, who described himself as a "consistent adherent of Whiggism," wrote as follows from his glebe in Clonmel, in February last:— It is quite customary here, of late, to see several fellows with their guns behind a ditch on the roadside, and you cannot guess whether they intend to shoot you or not, until perhaps you feel the effects of their lead. These lads are, you know, legally armed under such circumstances. The police are of little use in the country, except to escort prisoners. The indiscriminate sale of firearms which has been permitted for so many months has filled with alarm every individual (no matter what his politics) with whom I have conversed. Could the magistracy of Ireland (particularly that branch who are necessarily in more immediate communication with Government) be induced to make a combined awakening representation to our rulers of the evils which, sooner or later, humanly speaking, must result from the facilities afforded to the lowest and most abandoned of society to arm themselves, such a representation would not be disregarded by the Government. The magistracy cannot but be alive to the dangers of our present position; and I am convinced they are far too independent and high-minded (when duty demands that they speak out) to be deterred from remonstrance by any apprehension of giving utterance to truth, unpalatable in any quarter, however high; that, in short, they are not composed of that plastic material that can accommodate its vision to the optics of the Minister of the day. In The Times newspaper of the 13th of April he found an extract from an Irish newspaper, describing the alarm felt in King's County from the extensive purchases of arms made by the peasantry. Almost all the Judges at the last assizes addressed the grand juries on this subject. Mr. Justice Jackson, for many years a Member of that House, charged the grand jury as follows on opening the commission at Clonmel:— There are a number of persons charged with offences connected with the possession and use of firearms. To the latter subject I feel it my incumbent duty to draw your attention, as I conceive there are a large portion of magistrates upon the grand jury; for, although it appears there was no lack of arms before, there has been latterly an extraordinary influx of arms into the country, the possession and use of which are connected with crimes of the most heinous character. The officer in command of this garrison very properly called upon me on my arrival in town, and directed my attention to placards which have been extensively published and circulated here; and one of them is of so curious a nature, being so shaped as if it had emanated from the Executive of the country, that I conceive it to be my duty to call your attention particularly to it. It bears the Queen's arms at its head, and has all the appearance of a Government proclamation; and at the end is the word 'Castle' in large letters, with 'street' in smaller characters, so as to make the latter word invisible to the reader at a distance. I believe the matter to be one of the deepest importance to the peace and order of society; and I think that you should call the attention of the Executive to this subject. Mr. Baron Lefroy, who had also been a Member of that House, in his charge to the grand jury of Leitrim at the last assizes, said— I have to remark upon this calendar as I have had to remark upon other calendars in Ireland since I have been connected with the administration of the law—what a remarkable contrast it presents to any calendar you could look at in England. All the serious offences upon the face of this calendar—as upon most of the calendars in Ireland—are connected with the use of firearms, either wielded by large bodies of men or by an individual in the perpetration of the very serious offences which are most calculated to disturb the peace of society—to interfere with the enjoyment of property; in short, every offence calculated to break the bonds of civilized society is committed through the instrumentality of firearms. There must be a great laxity and detect in the law upon this subject. There is no doubt an excuse which is very plausible, and a very inviting one, that is—the privilege to use and possess firearms; but, if we find from experience that this privilege is abused, so as to interfere with the general good of the community, it is right that the law should be very stringent in its provisions with reference to the possession of firearms, which would conduce materially to the furtherance of civilization in the country, to the security of life, and the perfect enjoyment of property. Mr. Baron Richards said at Ennis, county of Clare— I am sorry to observe that there are a great many in custody charged with taking firearms. This, undoubtedly, is an offence of a very serious nature and bad character; but, whether crimes of this description have been committed by the inhabitants of this county, or by parties from other districts, I do not know. However, as far as in us lies, we must endeavour to put down by the strong arm of the law offences of this nature. Mr. Serjeant Howley, in his charge to the grand jury at the last assizes for Limerick, said— Lawful authority appears to be pushed aside. Threatening notices and the arms of the assassin govern, control, and punish every exercise of property, right, or duty. Those whom the blow has not reached know and feel, from the written threats they receive, that in their daily avocations they literally walk in the shadow of death. No courage, no precaution, no life, however blameless, saves the victim from his doom; and when the bloody deed is accomplished, it would appear as if it was the work of an invisible hand, for no trace is found, no information gleaned, no eye has seen the perpetrator of the crime. Amongst the more recent cases of murder were two officers of my civil court, Donohoe and Dwyer, both men of most exemplary character and conduct. Donohoe, in the immediate vicinity of this town, on his return home in the evening, was accosted in terms of civility on the public highway by three armed men, and the next moment was shot to death. Dwyer, in the town of Templemore, was rising on his knees after night prayer, and received, through the window of his humble chamber, the wounds that terminated his life. A petition had been placed in his hands by a right hon. Gentleman (Mr. G. D. Damer), who had been compelled to leave town, and who had requested him (Sir W. Verner) to present it in his name, signed by eight magistrates, three clergymen of the Established Church, two Roman Catholic clergymen, and all the respectable persons in and about the town of Roscrea, representing that on the 25th of March last, the fair-day of that town, they had been eyewitnesses to a sale by auction of firearms, which was attended by crowds of the lowest orders-of the population, who bought up guns and pistols as fast as they could be pot op for safe—some as low in price as 2s. for a case of pistols, and guns at equally low prices, The petitioners represented that the well-disposed persons of all classes in the district joined in expressing a hope that the Government would lose no time in taking this matter into their most serious Consideration, and in adopting some measures to prevent the continuance of so great an abuse by legislative enactment. He had received, too, a letter from the Earl of Glengall, from which he might read the following passages:— Why do the farmers buy arms?—Because every ruffian has a gun; if they had not, the farmers would not want them. Every villain in this country has arms; it's truly dreadful! Auctions are held at most of our markets regularly; we have numberless proofs of fellows in the public works having bought them and attacked houses. A letter appeared in the Limerick Chronicle, of the 28th ult., signed by William Wilson, whose son had been attacked by some ruffians and dangerously wounded, in which, after stating that the magistrates and police were zealously tracing the perpetrators of the outrage, the writer proceeded:— They seem to be fully aware of the impending ruin that awaits the rural districts, for want of any coercive guard, owing to the general armament of the whole population of the lowest order in Ireland, when every man may walk the country at large, at all hours, with his gun primed and loaded. Spain was never worse than Ireland is now; you con get a man shot for half-a-crown. I do not jest, I am speaking seriously; a short time will tell. He thought one of the greatest misfortunes that could befall Ireland would be its deprivation, at the present time, of the services of that noble Lord (the Lord Lieutenant) by whom the administration of the affairs of that country had been conducted under the present Government. It was stated that, when that noble Lord went to Ireland, he expressed his intention to govern that country without an Arms Act; and in consequence of that declaration some dealers in arms had not scrupled to make the assertion that they sold firearms under the authority of the Government. He might read to the House a placard issued by one of these persons, which was surmounted by a representation of the Royal arms, and bore the appearance of an official proclamation:— Whereas many evil-disposed persons avail themselves of the present scarcity of food as a pretext to commit acts of violence against property, and otherwise disturbing the peace of the country, his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant is pleased to grant all Her Majesty's peaceable and loyal subjects, without distinction, the power lo have and to keep any description of firearms, for the protection of the public peace, and likewise their own homes and property, without any restriction, except an invoice or certificate of the person from whom the arms are purchased. Thomas M'Crade is privileged by his Excellency, and fully empowered by the honourable Board of Excise, to offer for sale by auction, to the peaceable inhabitants of this town, 500 double and single-barrelled guns of various sorts, and 1,000 pair of pistols, warranted all double Tower proof, 500,000 best percussion caps, a large quantity of powder-flasks, shot, hags and belts, wash rods, turnscrews, nipple wrenches, &c. THOMAS M'GRADE, Licensed Auctioneer, 4, Castle-street, Dublin. The sale of arms still continued in Ireland, and he had received information from the county of Down that no less than 500 stand of arms had recently been sold in one portion of that county. He thought these circumstances deserved the attention of the Government; and he begged to move for returns of all applications made to the Government by grand juries, magistrates and others in Ireland, with reference to the unlimited sale of arms and ammunition in Ireland.

MR. GROGAN

seconded the Motion.

MR. LABOUCHERE

Sir, I can assure the hon. and gallant Baronet who has just eat down, that it is very far from my desire to express any surprise, much less to make any complaint of an Irish representative having thought fit, under the present circumstances of that country, to call the attention of the House to its internal condition, both as respects the security of life and property there, and as respects the effect produced by the determination of the Government and the House at the end of last Session to have the law in Ireland the same as it is in England, with regard to the sale and possession of firearms, and to do away with those Acts, which had been so long on the Statute-book, forbidding the sale and possession of firearms, except under certain restrictions. I can assure the House that the condition of Ireland during the calamitous winter which has just passed over our heads, both in this and either respects, has occupied the most; anxious and constant solicitude of Her Majesty's Government, and that we did feel that the step which we took in recommending to the House to part with powers which former Administrations had exercised, only increased our responsibility to maintain the existing law and protect life and property; and, Sir, although we felt that this responsibility was also increased by the circumstances which a deficiency in the means of subsistence occasioned in the country, yet still we are sensible that those misfortunes have not been aggravated by the bad conduct of the people, and that the peace of the country has not been disturbed. I can assure the hon. Member that the Government is quite aware of the responsibility which it has contracted. If the Government undertook to administer the affairs of Ireland without having recourse to any extraordinary powers, whether in the shape of Coercion Bills, or Arms Bills, they, I think, having taken that determination, should not lightly depart from that course; and I think I can show the House that we did not rashly make that recommendation, nor do we repent having made it. Undoubtedly it has been the case, as was naturally to be supposed, that outrages have multiplied very greatly during the past year in Ireland. If we compare the number of outrages that have been committed in 1847, with those which were committed in 1846, a large increase in the number will be shown; but I believe the House will come to a very inaccurate conclusion, if they look only to that circumstance, without also taking into account the nature and character of those outrages which have been committed. This fact will strike every Gentleman who has looked at the returns on the Table of the House—namely, that while there has been an immense increase in the number of outrages directed against property, the number of outrages directed against life and the peace of society has been but slightly increased, and in the number of agrarian outrages there has actually been a diminution. I ventured on a former occasion to call the attention of the House to these remarkable circumstances. I allow that it is impossible to direct the attention of the House to this matter, without calling upon them to look at the manner in which, upon the whole, the law has been administered in Ireland; and I have the satisfaction of being able to state that for along time the law had not been curried into effect so firmly and efficaciously as it has been daring the past year, I think, therefore, that the Government did well when they refused to resort to extraordinary expedients, since we find that they have been able, with the assistance of the law as it stands—not to prevent crime altogether, for that is not to be expected—but to punish offenders, to vindicate the law, and to prevent that impunity for crime which has been the most fearful feature in the social condition of Ireland. I shall be able to show that the way in which the law has been administered by the ordinary tribunals of the country is enough to make a Government pause before they entertain the proposition made by the hon. and gallant Baronet who has just sat down, and before they have recourse to—the hon. Baronet himself did not say what measure—any measure of an extraordinary and unconstitutional character. I have always thought that until the existing law has been tried and has failed in its object of giving due protection to life and property, no Government has a right to come down to the House and ask for extraordinary powers for that purpose; and I think it rests upon them to show that the power with which a Government is invested has been fully exerted for the vindication of the law and for the protection of society. With respect to the sale of arms, I am not prepared to say that there has not been a large importation of arms into Ireland, and a considerable sale of them recently; but I must say that I believe that there is very great exaggeration in the reports which have found their way into the newspapers. The hon. Baronet has quoted many letters from persons resident in Ireland to show the extensive sale which has taken place; but I cannot help thinking that the account which he gives as a general picture of the state of Ireland in this respect is exaggerated—at least it is very different from that which I have received from the most authoritative sources. I will read an extract from a letter which I received in the month of January, from a gentleman whose authority, from his personal character and official position, I hold to be the very highest in Ireland on this subject—I mean that excellent and distinguished officer, Colonel M'Gregor, who commands the constabulary in that country. At my request he sent me some information on the subject, and he accompanied that information with a letter, which I will now read to the House, and which contains a very complete and accurate picture of the state of Ireland, both with regard to the number of outrages which have been committed, and to the sale of firearms:— Upon the whole, then, it would appear that the country was never more free from political excitement, nor from secret combination, nor (although this fact may, perhaps, be attributed to an apathy and indisposition towards the cultivation of the land) from outrage of a purely agrarian character, but that the increase of crime seems to spring almost entirely out of the prevailing scarcity; and, although many of the ringleaders in the plundering of provisions or of house attacks, or of attacks of persons on the highway for money or provisions, are not themselves in want, yet they are readily followed in the commission of crime by those who are in a state of sad destitution. I believe this to be a most accurate and faithful representation of the condition of Ireland; and I will ask the House whether it is by Coercion Bills or Arms Bills that outrages arising under the circumstances described by Colonel M'Gregor are to be put down? I will now read an extract from Colonel M'Gregor's statement with regard to the sale and possession of arms:— By a reference to the returns respecting the increased desire of the people to procure firearms, it will be seen that the rumours on this subject have been exaggerated; in confirmation of which observation I may state, that out of about 1,550 of the worst description of crimes reported during the last seven weeks, only 450 appear to have been perpetrated by armed parties; and although it is undeniable that arms have lately fallen into the hands of people who will make the worst use of them, yet it is to be hoped that, from the prices paid for arms, as well as from the reports of the officers of the constabulary, that a very large proportion of the arms recently purchased have been procured by respectable farmers and their confidential dependants against the apprehended attacks of men driven to despair by want. The truth is that no one who ever considered this subject at all could doubt that when we put an end to those laws which prevented the sale of firearms in Ireland, considerable abuses would spring up. Forbidden fruit is sweet, and for an Irish peasant to be in possession of a gun is a matter of pride to him. The hon. Baronet has passed his life among a peasantry who have always been in the possession of firearms. The English policy formerly was to arm the Orangemen of the north, and to forbid the use of arms to the rest of Ireland. It is natural, therefore, now that these restrictions have been taken off, that the Catholic peasantry of Ireland should run riot a little with such a new power; and we must not banish from our minds this consideration before we attach too much importance to the great desire which, I do not deny, has shown itself to possess arms in the southern and western parts of Ireland. At the same time I must say that in some counties of Ireland, as the county of Kerry, and in Connaught generally, there has not been the same desire shown to possess arms as in other parts of Ireland. I have stated that the Government are quite aware of the responsibility which they contracted in undertaking to govern Ireland without an Arms Bill, and they have determined to put in force the law, and to prevent, as far as was in their power, the abuse of fire-arms being placed in improper hands; and I can assure the House that the existing law is by no means inefficient for objects of this kind. There is an Act well known in Ireland under the name of the Whiteboy Act, which inflicts most severe penalties on persons who appear in arms to the terror of their neighbours, without reasonable cause; and that statute has been applied firmly and vigorously, in order to prevent mischiefs arising from the improper use of firearms; and I am happy to say, that in the case of those persons who have been tried for offences under the Whiteboy Act, there has been no indisposition evinced on the part of witnesses to come forward, or on the part of juries to convict. Allusion has been made to the county of Tipperary—a county which, I am sorry to say, is commonly quoted in this House when outrage and disorder are the subject of discussion. But I will read to the House a letter which is dated the 28th of March, and which is written by a resident magistrate of that county:— I have the honour to report," the magistrate said, "that I went to attend at the assizes of Nenagh, on the 16th instant, where I had several cases for trial, and returned to my station on the 26th. With reference to my report of the 20th of November, wherein I suggested those persons appearing under arms to prevent the sale of corn at an auction should be prosecuted under the Whiteboy Act, I beg to state that the leaders of this party were convicted, and sentenced to imprisonment with hard labour, which, I trust, will prevent a recurrence of these assemblies. I beg further to state, that I have passed several other convictions for crime committed in my district, and that twenty-one of the misguided persons have been sentenced to seven and fourteen years' transportation. This is only one out of a great number of letters, which I could read to the House to show that it is not true that the possession of firearms has led to all the evils which have been referred to. In endeavouring to prevent abuses from the possession of arms, the Government has been backed by the good sense and good feeling of the country; and the ordinary tribunals have enforced the law in the best manner in which it can be carried into effect—namely, by the assistance of the community for whose benefit the Act was passed. If it were necessary, I could go into many details to prove the accuracy of what I have stated, both as to the manner in which the law has been carried into effect, and the number of convictions at the recent assizes in Ireland; and I could also point out to the House from the reports which he upon its Table, that the character of the outrages committed last year, bears out the statement which I have made with regard to the comparative increase in offences against property, and offences against the lives of individuals. Notwithstanding the increase which has undoubtedly taken place, nothing has occurred to induce the Government to depart from their determination to maintain the peace of the country without coming down to the House to ask for extraordinary and unconstitutional powers. The hon. Baronet who brought forward this question, has referred, in terms for which I sincerely thank him, to the noble person whose name I cannot pronounce without emotion, and whose fate it has been in times of unexampled difficulty and danger to administer the government of Ireland. I can truly say that the courage and sagacity of that noble person have had the most happy effect in animating the exertions of all those who came in contact with him, and who were anxious to co-operate with him in his endeavours to maintain the peace and to preserve the lives of the people of Ireland. I know how constant and unwearied his exertions have been; and I think that, considering the difficulties which have beset the Government, that these exertions have been attended with as much success as could be expected. The noble Lord has been supported most vigorously and most efficiently, in the first place, by that admirable force, the police force of Ireland, and by the officer in command of it, to whom I have already referred. And next, the noble Lord was supported by the army of Ireland, which had the most embarrassing and painful duties to perform, which they discharged with a degree of humanity and discipline that was most important to the preservation of the peace of the country. I must say, also, that the noble Lord received most valuable assistance from the clergy of all denominations, both in relieving the existing distress and in preserving the peace of the country. The most trying times have now passed over; but every Gentleman who was in the country at the time must feel that when the riots began at Dungarvon, Youghal, and Waterford—and there was no knowing how far they would spread, if the clergy, both Protestant and Roman Catholic, had not preached submission to the law—all the efforts of the Government to maintain tranquillity might have been in vain. I do not know whether it be necessary to go farther into this subject. I can only assure the House that, as the attention of the Government has been anxiously directed for a long time past to this matter, it will also be anxiously directed to it for the future. All that I feel it necessary to say at present is, that I do not think that any case has been made out to justify the Government in coming to Parliament, and calling for extraordinary powers to prevent the sale of firearms. I believe there is great evil in departing from the ordinary course of the constitution when it is possible to avoid it. I do not blame former Governments for having done so, nor do I say that it may not be necessary for a Government to take that painful course. With these sentiments I must decline the introduction of some new Arms Bill. It is very easy for the hon. Baronet to say, "some Arms Bill." But is our experience of former Arms Bills so good as to justify us in saying they afford a safeguard against abuse, or prevent arms from getting into the hands of evil-disposed persons? We have heard of Arms Bill after Arms Bill. But did any one of these measures prevent rogues or ruffians obtaining possession of arms? All were lamentable failures in that respect. The hon. Baronet himself referred to the speech of the noble Lord who was Secretary for Ireland when the last Arms Bill was introduced, in which it was admitted that the then state of the law was a complete failure. I am sure the experience of the hon. Baronet, as a magistrate, must have convinced him that former Bills utterly failed in producing the results which were anticipated from them. I, for one, feel bound to hesitate before I recommend to the House a departure from the ordinary course of the constitution as a remedy for the evils of Ireland. The Government will continue, as they have done, vigorously and determinedly to exert the powers of the law to preserve the lives and properties of Her Majesty's subjects in Ireland, being fully aware of the sacred obligation which they have incurred in that respect. I do not believe it would conduce to that end—that it would strengthen the hands of the Government—to introduce a measure of this description; and it is on that ground that I have felt compelled to express a contrary opinion to that urged by the hon. Baronet. With regard to the Motion of the hon. Baronet, I can have no objection to it, and I cheerfully agree to it.

MR. SHAW

said, that as the right hon. Gentleman did not oppose the Motion of his hon. Friend (Sir W. Verner), it was not necessary for him to trespass at any length upon the House; but he could not let the opportunity pass without expressing his opinion that the law as regarded firearms in Ireland was in a very unsatisfactory condition, and inspired the well-disposed and peaceable inhabitants of that country with a feeling of general uneasiness and alarm. He must remind the right hon. Gentleman, that it was not a voluntary act on the part of the Government last Session dispensing with the aid of all extraordinary powers on the subject; for the Government had proposed to renew the Arms Act, but were driven from that course by the pressure of their general supporters. He, at the time, while he expressed the want of confidence he had before expressed in the additions that had been made to the Arms Act by the late Government, in, he believed, the Session of 1843, in respect of a vexatious mode of registration and branding, had still warned the present Government, that they would incur great responsibility if they consented to abandon all the provisions that for the last fifty years had invested the Executive Government of Ireland with a peculiar control over the manufacture and sale of arms and ammunition in that part of the United Kingdom. He thought the result had justified his predictions, and that the Government would find it necessary in some shape to renew that code of laws. He did not consider that the Whiteboy Acts were sufficient for the purpose, as they could not be applied generally, but only to particular parts of the country, under peculiar circumstances affecting the public peace; and he strongly recommended the whole question to the serious consideration of the Government. It was no party question, but one which essentially concerned the general interests of society. He could not sit down without assuring the right hon. Gen- tleman, and the House, of his entire concurrence in what had fallen from the right hon. Gentleman with reference to the distinguished nobleman then at the head of the Irish Government. He felt sincere and unaffected sorrow for his illness, and would declare in that House what he had frequently stated elsewhere—that without distinction of politics or party, that nobleman's present state of health had excited in every part of Ireland universal sympathy and regret.

Motion agreed to.