HC Deb 15 August 1839 vol 50 cc354-8

The County and District Constables Bill read a third time.

Mr. Hodgson moved an amendment, to the effect that constables should not be disqualified for voting at elections for Members of Parliament.

The Solicitor-General

said, that he felt no objection to take whatever course might be most acceptable to the majority of the House; it did appear to him, however, that the object of disqualifying constables from voting in their own districts could not be fully accomplished, unless they were also disqualified from voting in those which were immediately adjoining.

The House divided on the question, that the words proposed to be left out stand.—Ayes 39; Noes 17: Majority 22.

List of the Ayes.
Aglionby, H. A. Parnell, rt. hn. Sir H.
Attwood, T. Pechell, Captain
Baring, F. T. Rich, H.
Bryan, G. Rolfe, Sir R. M.
Buller, C. Rutherfurd, rt. hn. A.
Divett, E. Salwey, Colonel
Donkin, Sir R. S. Scholefield, J.
Duncombe, T. Somerville, Sir W. M.
Grey, right hon. Sir C. Steuart, R.
Hawes, B. Stewart, J.
Hector, C. J. Stock, Dr.
Hill, Lord A. M. C. Surrey, Earl of
Hobhouse, T. B. Thornely, T.
Hoskins, K. Wakley.T.
Hutton, R. Warburton, H.
Langdale, hon. C. Williams, W.
Loch, C. Wilmot, Sir J. E.
Lushington, C. Yates, J. A.
Lushington, rt. hn. S. TELLERS.
Mildmay, P. St. J. Parker, J.
Muskett, G. A. O'Ferrall, M.
List of the NOES.
Blackburne, I. Holmes, W.
Broadley, H. Lowther, J. H.
Darby, G. Lygon, hon. General
D'Israeli, B. Polhill, F.
Eliot, Lord Somerset, Lord G.
Forester, hon. G. Trench, Sir F.
Freemantle, Sir T. Vere, Sir C. B.
Gisborne, T. TELLERS.
Gordon, hon. Capt. Hodgson, R.
Grimsditch, T. Douglas, Sir C. E.

In clause 16, Lord G. Somerset moved the insertion of the following proviso: "Provided always, that nothing herein contained shall invalidate the appointment, or interfere with the payment, of parochial constables."

The House divided, when there appeared—For the proviso 30; Against it 32: Majority 2.

List of the Ayes.
Blackburne, T. Lowther, J. H.
Bridgeman, H. Lygon, hon. General
Broadley, H. O'Connell, D.
Brownrigg, S. O'Connell, J.
Calcraft, J. H. Pechell, Captain
Cochrane, Sir T. J. Polhill, F.
Dick, Q Pryme, G.
D'Israeli, B. Scholefield, J.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Somerset, Lord G.
Forester, hon. G. Townley, R. G.
Grimsditch, T. Vere, Sir C. B.
Hodgson, R. Wakley, T.
Holmes, W. Williams, W,
Irving, J.
Kemble, H. TELLERS.
Langdale, hon. C. Freemantle, Sir T.
Lincoln, Earl of Darby, G.
List of the NOES.
Aglionby, H. A. Redington, T. N.
Baring, F. T. Rice, right hon. T. S.
Bryan, G. Rich, H.
Buller, C. Rolfe, Sir R. M.
Currie, R. Rutherfurd, rt. hn. A.
Dalmeney, Lord Salwey, Colonel
Divett, E. Somers, J. P.
Donkin, Sir R. S. Somerville, Sir W.M.
Duncombe, T. Stanley, hon. E. J.
Gisborne, T. Surrey, Earl of
Grey, rt. hon. Sir C. Troubridge, Sir E. T.
Hobhouse, T. B. Vigors, N. A.
Hume, J. Warburton, H.
Lushington, C. Yates, J. A.
Lushington, rt. hn. S.
Mildmay, P. St. John TELLERS.
Muskett, G. A. Parker, J.
Parnell, rt. hon. Sir H. O'Ferrall, R. M.

On the question, that the bill do pass,

Mr. D'Israeli

had opposed this bill on its original stages, although he had offered no factious opposition. Now that the measure had arrived at its last stage, he thought he was justified in entering his protest against it, and dividing the House against its passing. Her Majesty's Government, and those who supported this measure, seemed to have taken up the view, that the first and sole duty of a police was to maintain order; but he (Mr. D'Israeli) apprehended, that, in a free country like England, there was a co-ordinate duty for a police, and that was, not merely to maintain order, but to respect liberty. He could not bring himself to believe that the rural police, as it was proposed to constitute the body by this bill, and as it had been brought into operation in some districts already, could fulfil both those duties. He wished to call the attention of the House to a document, which seemed to have been studiously kept out of sight in the course of the discussion on this bill—the Report of the Commissioners of Inquiry into the State of the Constabulary Force of the Country. There were some curious details in the evidence annexed to that report, which he thought it was the duty of the House not to overlook, clearly showing what must be the character of a rural police formed upon the principles of this bill. It was proved, that the practice of the police, in those rural districts where the force had been called into existence, was to enter cottages, and order lights to be extinguished, because, according to one of the witnesses examined, cottagers had no right to have lights to serve as signals to poachers and marauders. It was also proved to be their practice, in other districts, to enter cottages in the daytime, and see if there was mutton boiling in the pot on the fire, because a sheep might have been killed in the neighbourhood. He asked the House, if these practices were sanctioned, what would become of the celebrated national dogma, that every Englishman's house was his castle? It might be said that these were very salutary regulations, and referred only to the labouring classes; but he (Mr. D'Israeli) looked upon their rights as equally sacred with those of the rest of the community. Another part of the evidence was to the effect, that the magistrates of Chelmsford regretted extremely that trampers, as they were called, were not exposed to be arrested for hiring beds in lodging-houses, whereas, if they only slept in the open air, they might be apprehended; but they congratulated themselves that the police, under their direction, had entered houses, and examined beds, to ascertain the character of the occupants. How was this to be reconciled with the sanctity of private dwellings, which had always been considered a very important principle of our social arrangements? He could not support this bill, when he looked to the hurried and unsatisfactory manner in which, at the end of the Session, this and other measures of police had been introduced. Although there might be a variation in the circumstances of the cases to meet which they were brought forward, yet, when he considered the manner in which they had been introduced, he must believe that there was an identity of purpose and a similarity of principle in all. The Birmingham Police Bill, on its introduction, was founded on a popular principle; in a very few days that was changed, and the principle of centralization adopted. The present bill was founded on a report which recommended centralization. When he saw that Government adopted that principle with avidity when they were sure of a majority to carry it, and gave it up only when they could not induce the House to agree with them, it was quite clear to him that the principle on which they were proceeding was that of centralization, and which, he believed, would be fatal to the liberties of the country. Under these circumstance), he should take the sense of the House against the passing of the bill, believing that its principle, however it might be veiled, was hostile to the liberties of the people.

The House then divided, when the numbers were—For the motion 45; Against it 13: Majority 32.

List of the Ayes.
Aglionby, H. A. Muskett, G. A.
Baring, F. T. O'Connell, M. J.
Bernal, R. Price, Sir R.
Blackburne, I. Pryme, G.
Broadley, H. Reid, Sir J. R.
Brownrigg, S. Rice, rt. hon. T. S.
Bryan, C. Rich, H.
Buller, C. Rolfe, Sir R. M.
Calcraft, J. H. Rutherfurd, rt. hn. A.
Cochrane, Sir T. J. Salwey, Colonel
Currie, R. Sheil, R. L.
Dalmeny, Lord Smith, J. A.
Dick, Q. Smith, B.
Divett, E. Somerset, Lord G.
Donkin, Sir R. S. Stanley, hon. E. J.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Surrey, Earl of
Ellis, J. Thornely, T.
Freemantle, Sir T. Townley, R. G.
Gisborne, T. Troubridge, Sir E. T.
Grey, right hon. Sir C. Vigors, N. A.
Hobbouse, T. B. Warburton, H.
Lushington, C. TELLERS.
Lushington, rt. hon. S. Parker, J.
Mildmay, P. St. J. O'Ferrall, R. M.
List of the NOES.
Attwood, T. Pechell, Captain
Bridgman, H. Polhill, F.
Grimsditch, T. Scholefield, J.
Hindley, C. Wakley, T.
Hodgson, R. Williams, W.
Holmes, W. TELLERS.
Hume, J. Duncombe, T.
Langdale, hon. C. D'Israeli, B.

Bill passed.

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