HL Deb 24 July 1980 vol 412 cc654-6WA
Lord MELCHETT

asked Her Majesty's Government:

  1. (i) Whether they are aware that, when 12 live seal pups (two of which subsequently died after all 12 pups had been kept overnight in a small Fiat van) were captured on Sweyn Holm, Orkney, under a licence issued in October 1979 655 under Section 10(1)(b) of the Conservation of Seals Act by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for Scotland the owner of Sweyn Holm first learnt of the capture and subsequent death of the seal pups when this was reported in the press;
  2. (ii) Whether the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for Scotland was aware in October 1979 that while the owner who had not been informed by the Department of the issuing of the licence lives on the neighbouring island to Sweyn Holm, the "occupier" of Sweyn Holm who was consulted before the licence was issued, does not in fact live on Sweyn Holm, and if they were not aware of these facts, why not;
  3. (iii) Whether they agree that under udal law seal pups on land are the property of the owner, rather than the occupier, of such land;
  4. (iv) Why the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for Scotland informed the owner of Sweyn Holm in writing on 17th December 1979 that the owner had given consent to the taking of these seal pups when this was not so, and how many other letters containing this inaccurate information were sent by officials of the department and by Ministers; and
  5. (v) What penalties can be imposed by the courts in Scotland on any person found to be in breach of the Transit of Animals (General Order) 1973, and what action was taken against the licensee who caused the death of the two seal pups in this case, and who was clearly in breach of the requirements of the order, which states that a person transporting animals must ensure that no injury or unnecessary suffering is caused by the arrangements made for transport.

The MINISTER of STATE, SCOTTISH OFFICE (The Earl of Mansfield)

(i) As I told the noble Lord in my reply of 19th December 1979, the written consent of the occupier of the island had been given to the proposed taking of 12 seal pups. There is no requirement in the Act for the owner to be advised in any circumstances. My department's action under the Act was limited to issuing the necessary licence. I have however decided that as a matter of administrative pro- cedure in any future application for licences to take live grey seal pups my department will require to be satisfied that both the owner and the occupier of the land have been informed.

(ii) My department knew that Sweyn Holm was uninhabited but the land is subject to an agricultural tenancy. The occupier in terms of this tenancy was known and his permission was given to the taking of seals from the island.

(iii) Under the law of Scotland wild animals are not the property of anyone until captured, when they become the property of the person who catches them. Udal law is not relevant to the issue of acquisition of property in a wild animal, such as a seal, which does not constitute heritable property until captured.

(iv) My department has already apologised for mistakenly replying to an inquiry (which subsequently transpired to have come from the owner of Sweyn Holm himself) to the effect that the owner's consent had been given. The department gave this wrong information in a reply to one other inquiry.

(v) Contravention of the Transit of Animals (General) Order 1973 is an offence against the Diseases of Animals Act 1950 for which penalties are specified in Section 79 of that Act. The question of proceedings in respect of an offence under that Act is a matter for the criminal authorities. I am not aware of any such proceedings having been instituted against the licensee