§ Mr. KEATINGasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether his attention had been called to the fact that, in prosecutions for offences in relation to old age pensions, imprisonment is imposed in all cases of conviction in Ireland, in accordance with the terms of the Act, while in many cases in England a fine is imposed; what statute gives power to justices in England to fine for an offence for which imprisonment only is designated by the statute creating it; whether the statute giving such power extends to Ireland; and, if not, whether he will bring in legislation making it so extend, in view of the fact that imprisonment entails practically lifelong exclusion from the pension?
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGEThe facts are as stated in the first part of the hon. Member's question. Under Section 9 of the Summary Jurisdiction Act, which does not extend to Ireland, a Court of Summary Jurisdiction in England may impose a fine not exceeding £25 in lieu of imprisonment for an offence punishable on summary conviction, if the court think that the justice of the case will be better met by a fine than by imprisonment. I will consider the suggestion contained in the last part of the hon. Member's question.
§ Mr. KEATINGasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether instructions have been given to pension officers throughout Ireland to have regard to the legal point raised by the Kilkenny borough pension committee, and decided by the Local Government Board for Ireland to be correct after the Treasury and Inland Revenue Board had refused to entertain it, that a person by legal computation attaining a given age on the day preceding the corresponding anniversary of birth, a claimant 513W whose 70th birthday falls on Friday is entitled to payment for that day as the Friday next after the day of his becoming entitled?
§ Mr. LLOYD-GEORGENo general instructions have been issued to pension officers in Ireland on this point, but in any cases in which they ask for instructions they are informed that if the local pension committee hold that a claimant whose 70th birthday falls on a Friday has attained the age of 70 on the previous day, no objection is to be raised by them to the first payment of a pension being made on that Friday.
§ Mr. GINNELLasked the Secretary to the Treasury if he will state what his present estimate is of the amount that will go to Ireland annually in the immediate future as old age pensions under the present law?
§ Mr. HOBHOUSEThe current expenditure upon the payment of old age pensions in Ireland is, upon the basis of pensions actually payable on 30th September last, at the rate of about £2,370,000 per annum. In the absence of alteration in the law, I do not think there is any reason to anticipate that there will be any substantial increase or decrease in the immediate future. I would refer the hon. Member further to my reply to a question of the hon. Member for North Meath on 25th October last.
§ Mr. KEATINGasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether having regard to the interest the matter is exciting in Ireland, he will lay upon the Table the terms, omitting if thought desirable the names of the pensioners, of the decision given by the Kilkenny borough pension committee in two cases on 19th August, 1909, to the effect that they had no jurisdiction to entertain questions reopening the matter of age of persons already in receipt of pensions, the document embodying the decision being with the pension officer or Local Government Board, and also the subsequent correspondence between the Local Government Board and the clerk of the said committee?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI am unable to comply with the request that I should lay on the Table of the House a copy of the correspondence between the Local Government Board and this pension committee. To do so would be contrary to the usual practice, and would serve no useful purpose as the point at issue arises in a case to be argued before the Court of Appeal during the current term.
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§ Mr. ARTHUR LYNCHasked the Chief Secretary whether his attention has been called to the case of Charles McGrath, of Moyaston, and his wife, Catherine McGrath, who had been in receipt of old age pensions of 5s. per week, the pension officer having reported that their respective incomes were under £20 each; whether he is aware that another pension officer reported on 31st July that their incomes were £26 each, and recommended a reduction of the pension to 3s. a week, but with the result that the Pension Committee on 13th September decided to continue the previous pension; that the pension officer appealed to the Local Government Board on the terms of his report recommending 3s. a week, with the result that the Local Government Board decided that they were not entitled to any pension; and whether, in view of the fact that the old couple are living in the house of a married niece, the valuation of whose holding is only £24 5s., he will indicate what may be done to secure a reconsideration of this case?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe facts are as stated. The Local Government Board disallowed the pensions in these two cases as the yearly value of the maintenance and other privileges enjoyed by Charles McGrath and his wife appeared to exceed the statutory limit.
§ Mr. J. P. FARRELLasked the Chief Secretary if he will state on what grounds Bridget Leary, of Cartran, county Longford, has been deprived of her old age pension; and whether, if the ground stated is want of proof of age, any time limit exists to the renewal and granting of this application?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Local Government Board upheld the appeal of the Pension Officers in this case on the ground that the pensioner had failed to prove that she had reached the age of 70 years. It is open to her to make a fresh claim at any time if she can obtain sufficient evidence as to her age.
§ Mr. J. P. FARRELLasked the Chief Secretary if he will state the total number of appeals against pensions lodged by pension officers in Longford county; how many were for want of proof of age, and how many for valuation of land, etc.; in how many cases the appeal was upheld, and in how many dismissed; and how many cases are now pending?
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§ Mr. BIRRELLThe appeals are not classified by counties in the Register kept by the Local Government Board, who are not, therefore, in a position to give the required information.
§ Mr. J. P. FARRELLasked the Chief Secretary whether he will state the grounds on which Patrick Keogh, of Ohill, county Longford, whose age has been admitted to be over 70, has been deprived of his old age pension; whether he is aware that this man, although nominally in occupation of nine acres of mountain land, has for years been a migratory labourer earning poor wages; and can he hold out any hope of a renewal of the pension?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThis man's pension was I disallowed by the Local Government Board on the ground that his means exceeded the statutory limit. In addition to some 18 acres of moorland and bog, which the claimant holds, he is in occupation of 9 statute acres of fairly good land, which appears to be well stocked and cropped.