HL Deb 10 March 2005 vol 670 cc1054-8
Baroness Scotland of Asthal

rose to move Motion C, That the House do not insist on its Amendment No. 33D, but do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33C, 33G, 33I and 33J in lieu thereof.

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I pray in aid the reasons already expounded in relation to this amendment by my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor. I also invite noble Lords to note that a very serious statement was made during the first debate. That was that the Liberal Democrats would be willing to veto the Bill. We now ask—

Lord Goodhart

My Lords, I must make it clear to the noble Baroness that this is not our amendment. We said that as long as the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, chooses to move his amendment, we will support it, even if he intends, as the ultimate weapon, to block the Bill.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal

My Lords, the House heard what was said. I now ask Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition whether they share the view that was expressed and whether they, too, will veto this Bill.

Moved, That the House do not insist on its Amendment No. 33D, but do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33C, 33G, 33I and 33J in lieu thereof.—(Baroness Scotland of Asthal.)

Lord Kingsland

My Lords, it is our earnest wish that this Bill finds its way on to the statute book.

The Chairman of Committees (Lord Brabazon of Tara)

My Lords, the Question is that Motion C be agreed to.

Lord Kingsland

rose to move, as an amendment to Motion C, leave out from "House" to end and insert "do insist on its Amendment No. 33D and do disagree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33C, 33G, 33I and 33J in lieu thereof.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I have spoken to this amendment, and I beg to move.

Moved, as an amendment to Motion C, leave out from "House" to end and insert "do insist on its Amendment No. 33D and do disagree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 33C, 33G. 33I and 33J in lieu thereof".—(Lord Kingsland.)

Lord Lucas

My Lords, I think that I should give the House notice of my intentions. I and many other Back-Benchers have laboured long and hard and have listened to great arguments from the Front Benches and Members of the Back Benches. I think that it has been made clear what the feelings of this House are. I very much hope that the Front Benches here and in another place will be able to resolve their differences. But if we find ourselves at tea time sending back substantial disagreements again to another place, I shall after the votes move for the Adjournment of the House.

12.56 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. C1) shall he agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 194; Not-Contents, 123.

Division No. 13
Ackner, L. Freyberg, L.
Addington, L. Garden, L.
Ahmed, L. Gardner of Parkes, B.
Alliance, L. Garel-Jones, L.
Ampthill, L. Geddes, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B. Glentoran, L.
Arran, E. Goodhart, L.
Astor, V. Goschen, L.
Astor of Hever, L. Greaves, L.
Avebury, L. Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L. Hamwee, B.
Barker, B. Hanham, B.
Beaumont of Whitley, L. Harris of High Cross, L.
Bell, L. Harris of Peckham, L.
Blackwell, L. Harris of Richmond, B.
Bledisloe, V. Hayhoe, L.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B. Henley, L.
Bradshaw, L. Higgins, L.
Bridgeman, V. Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Bridges, L. Hogg, B.
Britian of Spennithorne, L. Home, L.
Broers, L. Hooper, B.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L. Howard of Rising, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L. Howe, E.
Buscombe, B. Howe of Aberavon, L.
Byford, B. Howe of Idlicote, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L. Jenkin of Roding, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L. Joffe, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B. Kalms, L.
Chorley, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Clement-Jones, L. Kimball, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller] King of Bridgwater, L.
Crickhowell, L. Kingsland, L.
Cumberlege, B. Knight of Collingtree, B.
Denham, L. Laing of Dunphail, L.
Dholakia, L. Laird, L.
Dixon-Smith. L. Laming, L.
D'Souza, B. Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Dykes, L. Lang of Monkton, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B. Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Eden of Winton, L. Liverpool, E.
Elles, B. Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L. Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Elton, L. Lucas, L.
Erroll, E. Ludford, B.
Falkland, V. Luke, L.
Falkner of Margravine, B. Lyell, L.
Feldman, L. McColl of Rogart, L.
Ferrers, E. Maclennan of Rogart, L.
Fookes, B. McNally, L.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L. Maddock, B.
Fowler. L. Mallalieu, B.
Freeman, L. Mancroft, L.
Marlesford, L. Saatchi, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L. St John of Fawsley, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B. Sandberg, L.
Miller of Hendon, B. Scott of Needham Market, B.
Monson, L. Seccombe, B.
Montrose, D. Selborne, E.
Moore of Lower Marsh, L. Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Morris of Bolton, B. Selsdon, L.
Mowbray and Stourton. L. Sharp of Guildford, B.
Naseby, L. Shaw of Northstead, L.
Neuberger, B. Sheldon, L.
Newby, L. Shutt of Greetland, L.
Newton of Braintree, L. Skidelsky, L.
Northbrook, L. Slim, V.
Northesk, E. Smith of Clifton, L.
Northover, B. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Norton of Louth, L. Steel of Aikwood, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L. Sterling of Plaistow, L.
O'Cathain, B. Stern, B.
Onslow, E. Stewartby, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B. Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Owen, L. Strathclyde, L.
Palumbo, L. Taverne, L.
Park of Monmouth, B. Thatcher, B.
Parkinson, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. [Teller]
Pearson of Rannoch, L. Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Perry of Southwark, B. Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Phillips of Sudbury, L. Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Plumb, L. Tombs, L.
Portsmouth, Bp. Tope, L.
Quirk, L. Tordoff, L.
Rawlings, B. Trumpington, B.
Razzall, L. Ullswater, V.
Redesdale, L. Vallance of Tummel, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L. Waddington, L.
Rennard, L. Wakeham, L.
Renton, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Richardson of Calow, B. Walmsley, B.
Roberts of Llandudno, L. Watson of Richmond, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Rogan, L. Wilcox, B.
Roper, L. Williams of Crosby, B.
Russell-Johnston, L. Willoughby de Broke, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L. Wilson of Dinton, L.
Alli, L. Elder, L.
Andrews, B. Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B. Falconer of Thoroton, L.(Lord Chancellor)
Bach, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Bassam of Brighton, L. Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L. Filkin, L.
Bhattacharyya, L. Gale, B.
Billingham, B. Giddens, L.
Blackstone, B. Gilbert, L.
Brett, L. Golding, B.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Goldsmith, L.
Brookman, L. Goudie, B.
Campbell-Savours, L. Gould of Brookwood, L.
Carter, L. Gould of Potternewton, B.
Carter of Coles, L. Graham of Edmonton, L.
Christopher, L. Greengross, B.
Clarke of Hampstead, L. Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Clinton-Davis, L. Grocott, L. [Teller]
Condon, L. Harris of Haringey, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L. Hart of Chilton, L.
Crawley, B. Haskel, L.
Davies of Coity, L. Haworth, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller] Henig, B.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Dearing, L. Hollis of Heigham, B.
Desai, L. Howarth of Breckland, B.
Donoughue, L. Howells of St. Davids, B.
Drayson, L. Howie of Troon, L.
Dubs, L.
Hoyle, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Hughes of Woodside, L. Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Rendell of Babergh, B.
Janner of Braunstone, L. Renwick of Clifton, L.
Jay of Paddington, B. Richard, L.
Jones, L. Rooker, L.
Jordan, L. Rosser, L.
King of West Bromwich, L. Rowlands, L.
Layard, L. Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Leitch, L. Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Levy. L. Sawyer, L.
Lipsey. L. Scotland of Asthal, B.
Lockwood, B. Sewel, L.
McDonagh, B. Simon, V.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L. Stone of Blackheath, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. Strabolgi, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B. Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
McKenzie of Luton, L. Thornton, B.
Marsh. L. Tomlinson, L.
Massey of Darwen, B. Triesman, L.
Maxton, L. Truscott, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L. Tunnicliffe, L.
Mitchell, L. Turnberg, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B. Turner of Camden, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B. Wall of New Barnet, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L. Warner, L.
Paul. L. Waverley, V.
Pendry, L. Weatherill, L.
Peston, L. Whitaker, B.
Plant of Highfield, L. Whitty, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Williams of Elvel, L.
Prosser. B. Winston, L.
Radice, L. Young of Norwood Green, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

On Question, Motion, as amended, agreed to.

1.10 p.m.

Lord Grocott

My Lords, if it is helpful, as I believe it has been, to give indications of time, I shall do so. As the House knows, we will once again send the Bill back to the representatives of the British people to hear their judgment on our deliberations. That will take around five hours, so the House will resume not earlier than six o'clock. I beg to move that the House do now adjourn during pleasure.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

[The Sitting was suspended from 1.11 to 6.30 p.m.]

A message was brought from the Commons, That they insist on certain of their amendments to a Lords amendment to the Prevention of Terrorism Bill; they insist on their disagreement to certain other Lords amendments and insist on their amendments in lieu thereof; they insist on their disagreement to Lords amendments proposed in lieu of a Lords amendment; they insist on their amendments to words so restored to the Bill by their insistence to a disagreement to a certain Lords amendment; they disagree with the Lords amendments in lieu for which they assign a reason; they insist on their disagreement with certain Lords amendments and insist on certain of their amendments in lieu; and they do not insist on an amendment in lieu to which the Lords have disagreed but do propose an amendment in lieu thereof.

Lord Falconer of Thoroton

My Lords, I beg to move that the Commons reasons and amendments be considered forthwith.

Moved, That the Commons reasons and amendments be considered forthwith.—(Lord Falconer of Thoroton.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

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