Wind Generators: Low-flying Aircraft (Hansard, 16 March 2004)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Bach)
My Lords, we do not issue particular hazard notices. When the Ministry of Defence is made aware of wind generators, they are displayed on military low flying charts, as well as being incorporated into volume three, part one, of the military aeronautical planning document, in the same way as any other obstruction. The MoD takes flight safety issues very seriously. It has very rigorous training standards, which are applied to ensure that pilots fly only in situations for which they are suitably prepared.

§ Lord Tanlaw
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, which, if I interpret it correctly, might indicate that wind turbines are not really a special danger to pilots after all. If there is no problem with radar or other electrical interference that cannot be filtered out in the cockpit, why are there still blanket planning objections by the Ministry of Defence to the establishment of both small and large wind farms? Like many people, I thought that they were part of government policy.
Does the Minister therefore agree that those objections may not be proper, but simply the result of an ongoing turf war between civil servants in Defra and the Ministry of Defence, in order to establish which department rules the countryside? If that is correct, will he ask the Prime Minister to intervene favourably on behalf of the wind farm applicants, so that his Government's commendable but highly ambitious targets for renewable energy can be met by 2010?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, the Ministry of Defence, like all other government departments, supports the Government's renewable energy policy outlined in the White Paper. The department takes sustainability matters extremely seriously, but it is our duty to ensure that the defences of the United Kingdom are not jeopardised in any way. It is undisputed that wind turbines can affect radar, low flying, and communication links, so we have to ensure that wind farm developments do not impair our operational needs and safety. We do not object, as far as low flying reasons are concerned, outside the three tactical training areas. The noble Lord will know—because one of them is in the part of the country that he comes from—that we do not object outside those areas; and we do not always object even when there are applications inside those areas.

§ Lord Corbett of Castle Vale
My Lords, can the Minister say what contact he has had with the Defence 128 Department of the Danish Government, since they have many offshore wind farms in areas over which their planes fly, as far as I know, without accident?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, we are constantly in touch with the Danish Defence Department. We have taken a rather more cautious attitude than some other governments. We make no apology for that. As far as low flying is concerned, it is only in those three tactical training areas that we ever object to wind farms.

§ Lord Astor of Hever
My Lords, does the Minister agree that pilots must be able to train safely in low flying skills, especially as flying hours have been reduced? Should this not be an overriding factor when permission is sought for any planned wind farm?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right, and I agree with him. The priority is to ensure that our pilots who are training for their vital tasks are safe. As the noble Lord will know, pilots are trained to see and avoid obstacles and other users of air space. While pre-knowledge of particular obstacles is useful in planning routes, we expect our pilots to maintain constant vigilance for previously unknown hazards.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, arising out of the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Tanlaw, can the Minister indicate the likely impact of MoD interventions on the achievement of the renewable energy targets?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, in one word, none at all. Three words—none.

§ Lord Higgins
My Lords, the noble Lord has made an important statement that there is no question that wind farms affect radar. Yet under the Energy Bill, the Government are proposing to put wind farms in the middle of some shipping lanes, without having carried out any study whatever into whether ships' radar are likely to be affected. There could be disastrous consequences if they go straight into a wind farm.

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for bringing that issue to my attention. If he will let me know more details about that, I will take the trouble of looking into it and writing back. Many of the objections made by the Ministry of Defence to proposed wind farms are on the basis of radar and the difficulties that there might be if wind farms are put up in certain places.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, is the Minister aware that windmills are also very dangerous to birds? Birds cannot read notices, so perhaps there is some other way that they could be alerted to the danger ahead.

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, as always. It is always the poor old MoD that is blamed when wind farms are not built in certain areas. Other equally notable institutions, many of them in the conservation field, also object to proposals for wind farms from time to time. Many pre-planning 129 proposals are put to various bodies, including the MoD, by the developers. Many of them are sorted out at that stage.

§ Lord Dixon-Smith
My Lords, how many wind generator hazard notices have been issued? Is the noble Lord aware of any reports from air crew of adverse effects from wind farms during their training programmes?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, I answered the noble Lord who asked the Question on the Order Paper that we do not issue particular hazard notices. I think the answer to the question asked by the noble Lord is none—again, none—but I will make sure that I check that out.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, is the Minister aware that many of the residents threatened by wind farms would love the Ministry of Defence to intensify its opposition?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, I am aware of that. It does not stop us supporting renewable energy, of which wind farms are an important part.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords, how many objections have been raised by the MoD with regard to the siting of wind farms?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, in the past two years, there have been roughly 1,000 pre-plan notifications of wind farm proposals per year. The MoD did not object to 64 per cent of those. When it got to the planning process, in 2003 the MoD objected to just four of those that went through the planning process.

§ Lord Redesdale
My Lords, I declare an interest, living next to Otterburn training area. Following on from the answer that the Minister gave to my noble friend, that there might be an intensification of use of those areas that do not have wind farms, does that mean that there will be more low-flying aircraft in those areas? It seems to be an unfair trade to make, not having wind farms and their associated problems, if we are going to get more low-flying aircraft.

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, I can answer the noble Lord by saying that there is no such intention, either in the area with which he is concerned or in the rest of the country. Our policy on low-flying aircraft is well known. It is vital that our pilots are trained in that way; I think that the House agrees with that. We must use our discretion and be careful that we do not disrupt people's lives any more than they are bound to be.

§ Lord Rotherwick
My Lords, on the four objections in planning, were those objections upheld in favour of the MoD, or were the applications allowed, although the MoD had objected to them?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, I thought that I had done pretty well with figures in my answers, but the noble Lord has defeated me. I shall have to write to him.