§ Lord Redesdale asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they will address the issue of applications for entertainment licences from circuses in the forthcoming guidance to the Licensing Act 2003; and how flexibility will be incorporated into those licences.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Lord McIntosh of Haringey)My Lords, the Licensing Act 2003 makes no provision to treat licensable activities in circuses differently from such activities in other locations. It is not possible for the guidance to amend the 2003 Act, but we have considered the views expressed to us by the circus industry, Equity and the Arts Council, to see where we can make the guidance clearer. The consultation period for the guidance is now over, and we expect to table the draft guidance before both Houses in the near future.
§ Lord RedesdaleMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Could he say what "the near future" means as regards guidance? We discussed guidance all through the passage of the then Licensing Bill, and the guidance has been delayed somewhat for many reasons, not least of which is that it seems almost unworkable in many areas. Does the Minister not agree that if the guidance on circuses, which is inflexible in its operation, is not changed it could lead to the closing down of some circuses, because of the bureaucracy involved in a travelling circus getting a temporary licence at each location it visits?
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, I do not know that I am prepared to define "in the near future". I am not seeking to justify a delay, but the first appointed day for the Act will be in September this year, when applications for licences can start to be submitted. The final implementation of the Bill will not be until the middle of next year, so there is not really a desperate hurry.
I do not think that circuses will be forced to close down. I agree that there are difficulties about the definition of regulated entertainment, and that there are problems where circuses have performances more than 50 times in a year or on a site used for a circus 126 more than 12 times in a year. The solution for which we ought to look is for local authorities in the areas concerned to seek the premises licence, and then make the site available to all circuses that wish to perform there.
§ Baroness BuscombeMy Lords, will the Minister not agree that it is right that we should now be given some clear indication of when the statutory guidance will be issued? He will know that in another place the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport assured honourable Members that the guidance would be forthcoming in November. On 9 December, I asked a relevant question and the noble Lord, Lord Warner, wrote to me to assure me that the guidance would shortly be forthcoming.
Is it not time for the Minister to admit that we are putting up with this extraordinary delay in the publication of the guidance because of a row? Is there not a fundamental difference in terms of policy between Ministers for the Home Office, the DCMS and the Department of Health, notwithstanding other departments, basically because of the problems of alcohol consumption and the impact that the Licensing Act has had on that?
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyNo, my Lords, I do not agree. The position taken in yesterday's Written Ministerial Statement on alcohol is that of the Cabinet Office and has the agreement of all relevant government departments. There is no division on that. On whether such a division is the reason for the subject matter of the Question—circuses—I am bit surprised, as most circuses do not serve alcohol at all.
§ Lord TebbitMy Lords, if the reason for the delay is not that suggested by my noble friend, will the Minister tell us what it is?
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyYes, my Lords. As I said in my Answer to the original Question, we have been consulting on the matter. It is not easy. Circuses do not entertain with one single activity. The great joy of circuses is that the performances cover a great variety of activities. However, the latter do not fit easily into the structure of legislation.
§ Lord RedesdaleMy Lords, would circuses actually need a licence if they did not perform any live music? If they avoided live music, the circus could take place quite happily without regulation. Is that not a bizarre aspect of the Act?
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, I wish I could answer that simply, but I cannot. Music—incidental, live or whatever—is one of the issues, but there are also questions about whether the activities fall into the category of sports events—for example, those of trapeze artists. It sounds daft to the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, and it sounds daft to me.