Legal Aid (Hansard, 23 October 2003)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Constitutional Affairs (Lord Filkin)
My Lords, the Legal Services Commission monitors the supply of legal aid services monthly. Indications from the new bid round for civil legal aid suggest that there will not be a significant reduction in the number of solicitors' firms providing publicly funded legal services.
A joint review by my department and the Legal Services Commission is under way, looking at demand, supply and purchasing arrangements to determine whether the current legal aid remuneration strategy and contracting structures represent the most cost-effective way of providing publicly funded legal services. The review will report in December 2003 and it will be published.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, under the Human Rights Act 1998, there is a fundamental right to access to independent legal advice and that currently approximately 40 per cent of our population is deterred from receiving it? Is he aware that there is a growing crisis in the legal aid system, whether or not he agrees with that assertion, in particular as regards the civil legal aid arrangements? Since January 2003, one in four solicitors has dropped out of the system. What is planned immediately to deal with those situations?

§ Lord Filkin
My Lords, we think that there is a risk of problems arising, but we are satisfied that there is not an immediate problem. That is not to imply complacency. We have to look also at how we can move back to the aims that this party has held for some 50 years; that is, to try to ensure that legal aid is made available to those in the greatest need. That requires not only a review of how we effectively commission work from lawyers, but also where, how and who we 1773 subsidise in the system so as to try to ensure that the very considerable increase in resources is directed to where it can give best value and is most needed.

Lord Renton
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, for tabling this very important Question. May I ask the Government to bear in mind that the strengthening of the legal aid system is much more important in ensuring the success of our system of justice than are any of the proposed changes that the Government have in mind?

§ Lord Filkin
My Lords, I do not think that there needs to be a choice in this: we should do both. Much work is being undertaken by the Department for Constitutional Affairs, first, to ensure better value in the short term from the current legal aid budget, which is now £2 billion; and, secondly, to consider how the systems should be restructured to ensure that people get earlier resolution, often in ways that may be less adversarial and result in greater satisfaction than is currently the case.

§ Lord Phillips of Sudbury
My Lords, may I ask the Minister to review what I think many practising lawyers will consider to be his overly complacent response to the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis? I declare an interest as someone whose firm has a legal aid franchise and therefore I speak from the coal face. There is now more severe discontent within the legal profession as regards legal aid than there has been at any time during my 40 years in the profession.
The noble Lord mentioned that there has not been, as he put it, a significant decrease in the number of firms seeking certificates. However, does he accept, first, that the number which are minded to withdraw from the legal aid scheme—and that includes my own firm—is really very significant? Secondly, there are already certain parts of the country where someone requiring legal aid has no access to a solicitor because none is available. Thirdly, in a recent survey, the Legal Services Commission itself found that some 2 million people with significant legal problems are currently receiving no legal help. Does the noble Lord accept that we have on our hands a real crisis?

§ Lord Filkin
My Lords, it is difficult to respond quickly to so many questions. We are certainly not complacent. We are aware that it is not necessary to have a lawyer physically in every town in order to provide a legal aid service, and therefore we have developed considerable initiatives in piloting alternative means of delivering those services.
Recent evidence derived from the civil legal aid bid suggests that a large number of lawyers wish to continue providing legal aid services. However, I repeat that we are not complacent; we are also aware of some concerns. The answer is not necessarily to throw about increased fee rates, but to consider trying to reduce levels of bureaucracy and to put in place better procurement arrangements with firms so as to give them greater certainty about the volume and flow 1774 of work, thus playing to the strengths of many legal firms which have demonstrated, through their scale and professionalism, that they are able to make good earnings out of the system.

§ Lord Ackner
My Lords, is not part of the trouble that the Government have relied on speculative legal practice, something which was looked on as being contrary to the public interest? It has now transpired that a high proportion of solicitors no longer wish to speculate because it is not a good basis on which to advise clients. One's own interest is often in conflict with that of the client.

§ Lord Filkin
My Lords, I am not absolutely certain that I have the gist of the question put to me by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Ackner. If he is asking whether we think it is important to focus legal aid on those firms which demonstrate that they can deliver quality services and try to reduce funding to firms delivering poor quality services, then I very much agree with him in that respect. Indeed, that is the thrust of many of our reforms.

§ Lord Carlisle of Bucklow
My Lords, does the Minister agree that in many areas of the country there are no solicitors providing a legal aid service, which people may well need? That is due to the withdrawal of many firms of solicitors from providing civil legal aid in the way outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis.

§ Lord Filkin
My Lords, I can only say in all honesty that that is not the picture shown by the current evidence. While there are some pockets of problems, in some areas those are being covered by alternative arrangements. The best answer I can give to the noble Lord is to say that when we publish the promised report on supply, demand and procurement, it will put into the public domain the evidence we have gathered from our surveys, all undertaken with good co-operation from many solicitors' firms in response to our questions.

§ Lord Lester of Herne Hill
My Lords—

§ Lord Grocott
My Lords, we are well into the 16th minute of Question Time.