Crystal Palace Refurbishment (Hansard, 23 October 2003)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Lord McIntosh of Haringey)
My Lords, the London Borough of Bromley and Sport England are working closely together to establish a framework for the future of Crystal Palace which meets the needs both of the local community and of élite sport in London. I understand that they are making good progress and that local residents have been briefed on developments. The parties are in regular dialogue with both London and central government.

§ Lord Moynihan
My Lords, why have the Government not acted sooner to secure the long-term future of Crystal Palace with private-sector support, rather than oversee a situation in which the Amateur Swimming Association is considering the closest equivalent venue for its 2004 Southern Counties swimming championships in Dunkirk?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, responsibility for Crystal Palace lies with the London Borough of Bromley and Sport England. I would not wish to say anything that could interrupt their dialogue which, as I have pointed out, is progressing well and which we hope will reach a successful conclusion. As regards the plans of the Amateur Swimming Association, I understand that while it may be literally true that, as the crow flies, Dunkirk is the nearest venue, the association is also looking at the possibility of using a 50-metre pool with accommodation for 800 spectators in both Aldershot and Norwich.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the entire site at Crystal Palace is extremely important from the point of view of any bid for the Olympic Games to come to London? Am I not right in thinking, for example, that accommodation is available there for foreign competitors which would make it much cheaper as an asset when it comes to putting the bid before the necessary authorities?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, before I respond to her question, may I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, on her birthday today? I wish her a happy flight on Concorde tomorrow and I hope that she comes back!

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, I was thinking of asking permission to have the entire Chamber on Monday afternoon to tell noble Lords all about it.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, yes, the noble Baroness is right. While Crystal Palace would not be used for main events in the Olympics, the facilities could well be used for training and practice purposes. Barbara Cassani, who is leading London 2012, is fully aware of those facilities and of the current negotiations.

§ Lord Addington
My Lords, one of the worrying things about the situation at the Crystal Palace sport 1776 centre is that a huge series of ad hoc committees will have to be put together to handle its transition from a front-line élite sports venue to a community services centre. There is a danger that those committees may not come together and deal properly with the transition. Do not the Government have a duty to ensure that such a transition of usage should be built in to any future planning?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, when referring to transition of usage we should remember that the Crystal Palace sports centre is now used mostly by the people of Bromley and its surrounding boroughs. It is used particularly by the people of its surrounding boroughs because the centre is right on the edge of Bromley. So there is no question of a transition from or to élite sports in the case of Crystal Palace.

§ Lord Monro of Langholm
My Lords, does the Minister recall that the Government set up a swimming advisory group in January 2001 to help teachers to provide instruction in swimming for pupils? Subsequent to that, very little seems to have happened. It would be a major disaster if the pool— which is the largest and most efficient in the south of England—is not available and disappears. Can the Minister give a firm assurance that the pool will continue in use for local people?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I cannot accept that nothing has happened since 2001. The Government have allocated £1.2 billion for school sports facilities, which include, of course, swimming pools. At the same time, the New Opportunities Fund is providing £100 million for community facilities in the United Kingdom. An additional £31 million has been allocated in England by Sport England itself. Of course the pool at Crystal Palace is a valuable resource. We do not anticipate that that resource will disappear.

§ Lord Glentoran
My Lords, the Government's lack of foresight and attention to Crystal Palace is yet another signal in respect of their attempt to win the Olympic Games for this country. Do the Government believe that it is more important to compete in the event of gaining the Olympic Games than it is to win it?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I am very sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, should frame his question in that way. I do not accept that there has been a lack of forethought in regard to Crystal Palace. I am sorry that he asked a question which will have the effect—whether he means it or not—of seeking to undermine our efforts to gain the Olympic Games for this country.

§ Baroness Finlay of Llandaff
My Lords, are the Government concerned that the closure of any sports facility sends a powerful message which runs counter to the policy of tackling obesity and increasing the amount of exercise taken by the population at large? 1777 Exercise is particularly important for people rehabilitating after some illnesses and accidents, and swimming can be the safest form of exercise for them to undertake as they begin to resume the activities of daily living.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I agree. But in the case of Crystal Palace we are not facing the closure of a facility. The position is that on 31st March 2004 Sport England's lease from Bromley Council expires and it has indicated that it wishes to surrender that lease. That in itself does not mean that there will be a closure either of the pool or of the sports centre. The efforts that I described in my first Answer will go towards ensuring the survival of sports facilities. That was one of the reasons to which the noble Baroness referred.

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, does the Minister recognise how far this country is falling behind some of our competitors in the provision of competitive 50-metre swimming pools? On successive visits to Germany over the years, I have swum in 50-metre swimming pools all over that country. Most medium-sized towns seem to have them. There are several in the Frankfurt area alone. Is not this something the Government should look at?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I yield to the expert evidence of the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, of his experience in Germany. I was not familiar with it. I shall convey what he says back to Sport England and to the sports authorities. We do what we need to do and what we can do; we do not do it because other people do things differently. But it is a valid point.