DISQUALIFICATION FROM WORKING WITH CHILDREN

HL Deb 17 November 2003 vol 654 cc1824-9

1. 1 The Criminal Justice and Court Services Act 2000 (c. 43) is amended as follows.
2. 2 After section 29 there is inserted—

"29A Disqualification at discretion of court: adults and juveniles

1. (1) This section applies where—
1. (a) an individual is convicted of an offence against a child (whether or not committed when he was aged 18 or over).
2. (b) the individual is sentenced by a senior court, and
3. (c) no qualifying sentence is imposed in respect of the conviction.
2. (2) If the court is satisfied, having regard to all the circumstances, that it is likely that the individual will commit a further offence against a child, it may order the individual to be disqualified from working with children.
3. (3) If the court makes an order under this section, it must statev its reasons for doing so and cause those reasons to be included in the record of the proceedings.

29B Subsequent application for order under section 28 or 29

1. (1) Where—
1. (a) section 28 applies but the court has neither made an order under that section nor complied with subsection (6) of that section, or
2. (b) section 29 applies but the court has not made an order under that section, and it appears to the prosecutor that the court has not considered the making of an order under that section,
• 30 the prosecutor may at any time apply to that court for an order under section 28 or 29.
2. (2) Subject to subsection (3). on an application under subsection (1)—
1. (a) in a case falling within subsection (1)(a), the court—
1. (i) must make an order under section 28 unless it is satisfied as mentioned in subsection (5) of that section, and
2. (ii) if it does not make an order under that section, must comply with subsection (6) of that section,
2. (b) in a case falling within subsection (1)(b), the court—
1. (i) must make an order under section 29 if it is satisfied as mentioned in subsection (4) of that section, and
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2. (ii) if it does so, must comply with subsection (5) of that section.
3. (3) Subsection (2) does not enable or require an order under section 28 or 29 to be made where the court is satisfied that it had considered the making of an order under that section at the time when it imposed the qualifying sentence or made the relevant order."

• 3

1. (1) Section 30 (supplemental provisions) is amended as follows.
2. (2) In the heading for "and 29" there is substituted "to 29B".
3. (3) In subsection (1)—

1. (a) for "and 29" there is substituted "to 29B", and
2. (b) in the definition of "qualifying sentence", after paragraph (d) there is inserted—

• "(dd) a sentence of detention under section 198or200of the Criminal Justice Act 2003,".

1. (4) In subsection (5)—
1. (a) in paragraph (a), for "or 29" there is substituted ", 29 or 29A",
2. (b) after paragraph (b) there is inserted—

• "(c) in relation to an individual to whom section 29A applies and on whom a sentence has been passed, references to his sentence are to that sentence."

• 4 In section 31 (appeals), in subsection (1), after paragraph (b) there is inserted—
• "(c) where an order is made under section 29A, as if the order were a sentence passed on him for the offence of which he has been convicted."

• 5

1. (1) Section 33 (conditions for application under section 32) is amended as follows.
2. (2) In subsection (6), after paragraph (d) there is inserted—
• "(e) in relation to an individual not falling within any of paragraphs (a) to (d), the day on which the disqualification order is made.".
3. (3) For subsection (8) there is substituted—

• "(8) In subsection (7) "detention" means detention (or detention and training)—

1. (a) under any sentence or order falling within paragraphs (b) to (f) of the definition of "qualifying sentence" in section 30(1), or
2. (b) under any sentence or order which would fall within those paragraphs if it were for a term or period of 12 months or more."."

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendment No. 114 not moved.]

Schedule 29 [Default orders: modification of provisions relating to community orders]:

Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 115: Page 352, line 7, leave out from "to" to "deal" in line 9 and insert "revoke the community order and deal with the offender for the offence is to be taken to be a power to revoke the default order and

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Schedule 30 [Amendments relating to sentencing]:

Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendments Nos. 116 to 121:

Page 368, line 8, leave out "release on licence of

Page 368, line 26, leave out "duration and conditions of licences for

Page 368, line 47, at end insert—

• "(5A) Any provision of sections 102 to 104 of the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000 which is applied by sub-paragraph (2) or (4) above shall have effect (as so applied) as if—
1. (a) any reference to secure accommodation were a reference to secure accommodation within the meaning of Part 2 of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 or a young offenders institution provided under section 19(1)(b) of the Prisons (Scotland) Act 1989,
2. (b) except in section 103(2), any reference to the Secretary of State were a reference to the Scottish Ministers,
3. (c) any reference to an officer of a local probation board were a reference to a relevant officer as defined by section 27(1) of the Prisoners and Criminal Proceedings (Scotland) Act 1993,
4. (d) any reference to a youth court were a reference to a sheriff court,
5. (e) in section 103, any reference to a petty sessions area were a reference to a local government area within the meaning of the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994,
6. (f) in section 103(3), for paragraphs (b) and (c) there were substituted a reference to an officer of a local authority constituted under that Act for the local government area in which the offender resides for the time being,
7. (g) section 103(5) were omitted,
8. (h) in section 104, for subsection (1) there were substituted—
9. "(1) Where a detention and training order is in force in respect of an offender and it appears on information to a sheriff court having jurisdiction in the locality in which the offender resides that the offender has failed to comply with requirements under section 103(6)(b), the court may—
1. (a) issue a citation requiring the offender to appear before it at the time specified in the citation, or
2. (b) issue a warrant for the offender's arrest."
10. (i) section 104(2) were omitted, and
11. (j) in section 104(6), the reference to the Crown Court were a reference to the High Court of Justiciary."

Page 369, line 3, leave out "release on licence of

Page 369, line 22, leave out "duration and conditions of licences for

Page 372, line 32, at end insert—

In section 76 (meaning of custodial sentence), in subsection (1) after paragraph (b) there is inserted—

(bb) a sentence of detention for public protection under section 198 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003;

(bc) a sentence of detention under section 200 of that Act;".

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Baroness Anelay of St Johns moved Amendment No. 122: Page 372, line 34, leave out sub-paragraph (2).

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendment No. 123: Page 386, line 34, at end insert—

( ) In section 42 (interpretation of Part 2), in subsection (2)(a), for "section 119 of the Powers of Criminal Court (Sentencing) Act 2000" there is substituted "paragraph 8(2)(a) or (b) of Schedule 11 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003".

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Schedule 35 [Repeals]:

Baroness Scotland of Asthal moved Amendments Nos. 124 to 146:

Page 418, column 2, leave out lines 8 to 11 and insert—

"In section 54(1), the words "and record or cause to be recorded"."

Page 420, line 19, at end insert—

"Firearms Act 1968 (c. 27)

In Schedule 6, in Part 2, paragraph 3."

Page 420, line 26, at end insert—

"Criminal Law Act 1977 (c. 45)

In Schedule 12, the entry relating to the Firearms Act 1968 (c. 27)."

Page 420, line 32, column 2, at end insert—

"In section 8B(6)(a), the words "commits or"."

Page 421, line 14, column 2, at end insert—

"In Schedule 7, paragraph 73."

Page 421, line 14, at end insert—

"Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 1981 (c. 27)

The whole Act."

Page 421, line 16, at end insert—

"Contempt of Court Act 1981(c.49)

Section 4(4).

Page 421, line 26, at end insert—

"Criminal Justice Act 1982 (c 48)	Section 61,
	In Schedule 9, paragraph l(a).
Mental Health Act 1983 (c. 20)	In section 52(7)(b), the words "where the court proceeds under subsection (1) of that section,"."

Page 421, line 34, column 2, at end insert—

"In Schedule 1, paragraphs 2 and 3."

Page 421, line 43, column 2, at end insert—

"In Schedule 2, paragraphs 1, 9 and 14."

Page 422, line 8, column 2, at end insert—

"Section 33."

Page 422, line 12, column 2, at end insert—

	"Section 144.
	In Schedule 15, paragraphs 10, 66 and 104."

Page 422, line 16, at end insert—

"Courts and Legal Services Act 1990(c.41)	In Schedule 18, paragraph 1990 25(5).
Broadcasting Act 1990 (c. 42)	In Schedule 20, paragraph 29(1)."

Page 422, line 17, column 2, at end insert—

"Section 55(1)."

Page 422, line 18, column 2, at end insert—

"In Schedule 11, paragraph 25."

Page 422, line 21, column 2, at end insert—

	"In Schedule 9, paragraphs 12, 17(c), 18(d), 25, 27, 29 and 49.
	In Schedule 10, paragraphs 40 and 71."

Page 422, line 28, column 2, at end insert—

	"Section 44(3).
	Section 45.
	Section 49(4)."

Page 422, line 29, column 2, at end insert—

"In Schedule 1, paragraphs 2 to 5, 8, 10, 12, 13, 15 to 19, 22(3), 24 to 26, 28 to 32, and 34 to 38."

Page 422, line 30, at end insert—

"Sexual Offences (Protected" Material) Act 1997 (c. 39)

Section 9(1).

Page 422, line 31, column 2, at beginning insert—

"Section 47(6)."

Page 422, line 35, column 2, at end insert—

"In Schedule 8, paragraphs 8, 37, 40, 65 and 93."

Page 422, line 35, at end insert—

"Access to Justice Act 1999 (c. 22)	Section 67(3).
	In Schedule 4, paragraphs 16, 39 and 47.
	In Schedule 13, paragraphs 96, 111 and 137."

Page 422, line 41, column 2, at end insert—

"In Schedule 9, paragraphs 62, 63, 64(2), 65, 91 and 201."

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill do now pass.

Moved, That the Bill do now pass.—(Baroness Scotland of Asthal.)

Lord Renton

My Lords, I feel bound to say to begin with that we all much admire the ability, the patience and the fortitude of the noble Baroness, Lady Scotland. She has had a tremendous task. I am going to have to comment, I am afraid, on the results of all the efforts that have been made on this colossal Bill. I should also like, although he is not with us at the moment, to pay my tribute to the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General, who has also been diligent and helpful. However, I find it hard to believe that two such diligent and able Ministers had to use their initiative in creating such a chaotic and long Bill as this has become.

I confess, if I may, that I have been in Parliament 58 years and taken part in pretty well every Bill dealing with criminal law and procedure during that time, since 1945. Never in all those years has there been such a long and detailed Criminal Justice Bill as this, which amends lots of previous legislation and adds many clauses to what is to be on the statute book. When it came to us, the Bill was 374 pages long. By the time we had dealt with it in Committee for 11 days and on Report for five days, it became 440 pages long. Even on Third Reading the Government have had to move so many amendments that it will become another 20 pages long. I find it a bit worrying that Members of the House of Commons will have only one day in this Session, which is nearing its end, to consider this vast range of amendments. They are not merely drafting amendments of previous legislation, although there are scores of those, they are nearly all government amendments, most of them amending previous legislation, and some of them are, as we know from our discussions, very controversial.

For centuries it has been the fundamental principle of our criminal cases that ignorance of the law is no defence. But now we have reached a stage where knowledge of the criminal law, even for a person of enormous ability, is impossible without referring to the previous statutes and seeing how they are amended and added to. The Government have created this situation. I say that it is vital that the Government, as soon as possible, early in the next Session, get started on the formation of a consolidation Bill; otherwise our criminal law will simply be a mystery, a mass of important Bills that have been amended by other Bills and amended by this Bill. That is not the way in which a parliamentary democracy such as ours should legislate. We have to make the legislation, especially in criminal law, understood by the people at large. Otherwise, the courts will no longer be able to say that ignorance of the law is no defence.

So I implore the Government to take note of what I have said and to get on with it as soon as they can in the next Session.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal

My Lords, I take this opportunity not only to thank the noble Lord for his kind words—of course I note everything that he said— but to commend the sterling efforts of the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, and all those who led for the Liberal Democrats, who have been more in number; nevertheless the noble Lords, Lord Thomas of Gresford and Lord Dholakia, and others should all be named in dispatches. I thank each and every one of them for the comradely way in which they have addressed some very difficult and technical issues.

On Question, Bill passed, and returned to the Commons with amendments.