West End Theatre (Hansard, 12 November 2003)

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, nobody can deny the cultural and economic importance of the West End theatre. The report by the Theatres Trust does an excellent job of setting out the problems that beset the sector. I understand that the Arts Council is committed to working closely with the Society of London Theatre and the Theatres Trust to explore funding options and discuss the issues.

§ Lord Harrison
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply and the commitment to engage with London theatre entrepreneurs, whose recent investment has helped to maintain a rich architectural heritage, a lively tradition of top-class drama and musicals, and a tourist attraction bringing jobs and prosperity to the capital. Nevertheless, will my noble friend undertake government action in the form of lottery funding, tax concessions or improved planning law to ensure that £250 million is found to upgrade London's commercial theatres, especially their seating and sight lines, public areas and backstage facilities and their ability to comply with the Disability Discrimination Act and modern health and safety laws?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, nobody who has read the Theatres Trust report could fail to be impressed by the physical problems of London 1357 theatres in what they offer the public. Nobody who goes to the theatre could fail to be aware of that. I congratulate the Theatres Trust on its report. At the same time, the noble Lord, Lord Harrison, raises the issue that the Government must confront: the only people who could financially assist London theatres are lottery distributors and non-departmental bodies, with which we have an arm's-length relationship. Nevertheless, I intend to meet the Theatres Trust in early January and to visit at least one of its theatres. I am personally committed to seeing that whatever funding can be made available is provided.

§ Lord Lloyd-Webber
My Lords, obviously, I must declare an interest in West End theatre. A fantastic Question has been asked. Is the Minister aware that the real concern within the West End is not only the fabric of the buildings but that the commercial theatre is not on a level playing field with the public sector? An example is the fact that the entire profit generated by the four playhouses on Shaftesbury Avenue since 1945 is less than was granted for the refurbishment of the Royal Court in the public sector.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, except in exceptional circumstances—for example, where there is access to, and learning about, heritage—the policy of lottery funding bodies is that grants should not be made to commercial buildings as opposed to the subsidised theatre. In that sense there is a distinction between the publicly subsidised theatre and commercial theatre. But that is true of all lottery funding for theatres and for all other purposes.

§ Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
My Lords, I declare an interest as a trustee of the Theatres Trust and a former member of the board of the Society of London Theatre. As my noble friend pursues his very sympathetic response to the Question, will he bear in mind that the subsidised sector depends quite significantly on the health and well-being of the West End theatres? In support of that, for instance, the National Theatre currently has three shows running in the West End. Historically, the subsidised theatre has provided many products for the West End. I am sure he will agree, therefore, that it is very much in the interest of the subsidised theatre that West End theatres should be well maintained and well managed.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I agree. I recognise the degree to which subsidised theatre and the commercial theatre support each other—it goes both ways. That is why I am pleased to be able to say, as I did at the outset, that the Arts Council is committed to working closely with the Society of London Theatre and the Theatres Trust.

§ Viscount Falkland
My Lords, the report mentions the expectations of theatre-goers. I think that the noble Lord will agree that most regular theatre-goers temper their expectations with moderation, because they are in very old buildings, many of which are listed, and do 1358 not have the facilities that we expect today as they were built for a different public. Does he not agree that, if we are to modernise theatres, there ought to be some priorities? Three aspects that bother regular theatre-goers such as me are: lavatories and washrooms, which are in many cases inadequate; facilities for the disabled, which are obviously a difficult matter and need to be dealt with very sensitively; and bars.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I could add to that list. Most theatres were built at a time when the average height of the population of this country was four inches lower than it is now. That has a great effect on seat pitch. Many circle and balcony seats in London theatres have a pitch of 24 inches. I would have thought that 28 inches was an absolute minimum, and a new modern theatre would be built with a pitch of 35 inches. The list could go on.

§ Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville
My Lords, is the Minister aware that a considerable theatre architect, Mr Verity, was also responsible for that great sporting icon, the Lord's cricket pavilion, and that that sort of cross-pollination is an outstanding logic for his department?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I am always glad to be instructed by the former Secretary of State for National Heritage.