Iraq: Looting (Hansard, 3 June 2003)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Bach)
My Lords, British forces entered the north of the city of Basra at the beginning of April. Their most immediate priority was to engage and defeat enemy forces. As soon as that had been achieved, units were deployed to secure Basra University. Looters were expelled and some stolen goods were recovered. British forces continued to protect the university, which I understand is now open, until the security situation improved.

§ Baroness Williams of Crosby
My Lords, does the Minister accept that that is—how can I put it?—a rather favourable view of what has happened? Some 2 million books, some of which date back to 1015, are understood to have been burnt at Basra University. The astronomy section was destroyed and a great deal of the university was laid to waste. Does the Minister accept that a month after the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, chided my noble friend Lord Redesdale for having suggested that Basra University could be protected, Human Rights Watch today published a report that shows that there are still daily killings in Basra and that looting is continuing? To use its words, there is no adequate security as yet even in that area after dark. Will the Government take urgent steps to arrange for the appropriate personnel who are police-trained rather than militarily-trained to go into the British area of occupation? That is all the more important, given that Mr Sawers, the Government's civil service representative, has now said that the likelihood is that the occupation coalition authority will be in charge for at least another year, and possibly even 18 months.

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, I cannot agree with the noble Baroness that I have given a favourable interpretation, nor that my noble friend Lady Symons in any way chided the noble Lord. Lord Redesdale, at an earlier Question Time. I must repeat the facts. The University of Basra in the north of the city was attacked by the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers on 6th April because it was being defended. A BBC report suggested that the last hideout for the Fedayeen in that city was in the university, where many foreign jihadis had signed up to study in the Koranic studies department. One of the main thrusts of our attack took them through he university as they moved towards the Iraqi naval academy. Much damage was done, alas, to the university—not by looters at that stage, but because of the fighting.
1167 It was necessary to fight to win the war to liberate Iraq and Basra in particular. However, I want to stress that as soon as enemy forces had been defeated and UK forces fell back to secure the area, when they returned looters had been there in the meantime. The British forces expelled between 1,000 and 1,500 looters from the university site and confiscated stolen items. It is a large site of about two square kilometres. One regiment occupied the site for 72 hours before handing over to a squadron of the Queen's Royal Lancers, who continued to protect the site and establish links with lecturers and other university staff. Those are the facts of the situation.
As far as concerns the noble Baroness's general comments about Basra, of course there are still problems at this stage. It would be ridiculous to suggest that any part of Iraq would become a liberal democracy the moment the ruthless dictator fell. In fact, there have been joint patrols by UK military and Iraqi police since 13th April in that city, where we have had responsibilities. Some 800 police are now reported to have returned to work in the area. I am advised that the security situation overall in that city is getting better rather than worse.

§ Baroness Rawlings
My Lords, does the Minister accept that the looting that we have seen across Iraq should not detract from the excellent work carried out by British and American forces in liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein? However, would he agree that, despite his very full answer, the looting and violence we have seen is a clear indication that DfID and the MoD comprehensively failed to work together before the conflict on proper contingency planning for how they would manage the peace? In particular, does the Minister agree with the analysis of Clare Short, who said this weekend that because she had been "duped" by the Prime Minister: The preparations for post-conflict were poor, and that is why we have got the chaos and suffering that we have now."?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, I am afraid that I do not agree with the noble Baroness's question, however kindly she puts it, and I certainly do not agree with what Ms Short had to say.

§ Lord Redesdale
My Lords, has any action been taken by 1 he British, or are the British prompting their American allies, to protect any of the archaeological sites in Iraq, because there is widescale reporting of looting on a massive scale that will make the destruction of the Baghdad museum seem paltry in comparison?

§ Lord Bach
My Lords, I know the concern of the noble Lord and other noble Lords on that issue. Any looting of such sites is unacceptable. Coalition forces have attempted to stop that where possible. He knows that Resolution 1483 imposes a new prohibition on trade in or transfer of cultural or religious items. We have been informed by the United States authorities that there are guards now at the Baghdad museum and that looting of its artefacts is under control. The 1168 United States has retrieved over 40,000 manuscripts and 400 other artefacts that were stolen from the Baghdad museum. I think that it is established now that many items that were reported missing in those early days had in fact been stored in vaults since the beginning of the military operations. However, I do not dispute that there is still a problem as far as cultural sites are concerned. We and our coalition allies are determined to sort that out.