Consolidation Bills (Hansard, 9 May 2002)

Lord Renton
asked Her Majesty's Government:
Which consolidation Bills will be considered by the Joint Committee on Consolidation Bills before 31st July this year.

§ The Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department (Baroness Scotland of Asthal)
My Lords, the Joint Committee on Consolidation Bills considered the European Parliamentary Elections Bill on 30th April. That will be the only consolidation Bill to be introduced before the Summer Recess. But the Government have also introduced legislation like the Land Registration Bill and support projects like the Tax Law Rewrite Project, which modernise legislation and bring it together in one Act, even though they are not pure consolidations.

Lord Renton
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply so far as it goes. Will the Government persuade the Joint Committee to undertake much more consolidation? We should bear in mind the fact that Acts of Parliament which have been amended by other Acts are difficult for people to understand, 1260 including judges. For that reason, lack of consolidation leads to longer and more expensive cases in the courts.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, certainly I endorse what the noble Lord says with regard to the importance of consolidation. Indeed, in 1975 the noble Lord was himself one of the prime movers in highlighting that as an issue. Quite rightly, the noble Lord continues to draw attention to the problem today.
The importance of consolidation has not changed, but there are now many more ways in which people can keep up to date. Not the least of those is the fact that our legislation is now available online so that references can be made with the greatest of ease. Judges currently sitting in our courts are perhaps a little more familiar with IT procedures than they were in the past.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, does my noble friend accept that there is a great need to consolidate a number of Bills dealing with environmental issues? I do not believe that any attempt has been made at consolidation since 1981. Recently we have passed a number of new Acts, making it extremely difficult for NGOs to understand the legislation. Will my noble friend look at this problem? Not only is it time consuming and confusing for people outside; it is also very expensive.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I have been happy to accept that consolidation in general is a consummation devoutly to be wished. However, priority has to be given to legislation which forms a part of the Government's agenda and is of the greatest importance to the citizens of our country. When one looks at matters of consolidation in relation to other issues, one can see that priority has been given to the correct kinds of legislation, certainly in this Session and every Session since 1997.

§ Lord Brightman
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the Social Security Administration Act 1992 has been amended by no fewer than 18 Acts of Parliament? In Part VI, dealing with enforcement, every single one of the original sections has either been repealed or amended, while 14 new sections have been added. However, there is still no consolidation in sight. Is this legislative quagmire acceptable.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, the noble and learned Lord is always right in terms of detail. His strictures aimed at the Government in relation to other matters have been taken on board. Thus, in the most recent legislation to come before the House, the noble and learned Lord will see that the cross-referencing to which he usually refers has been assiduously applied. In relation to the particular Bill he mentioned, I can say no more than that we shall continue to ensure clarity. I can confirm that this is one area where we shall continue with our endeavours.

§ Lord Goodhart
My Lords, I believe that the noble Baroness and the noble and learned Lord, Lord 1261 Falconer of Thoroton, sat through the proceedings on the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Bill, as I did. Does she agree that, over the years, leasehold legislation has become completely chaotic and that this area is a prime target for consolidation.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I certainly agree that the Commonhold and Leasehold Bill was a line piece of legislation. We did much to consolidate the position in this area, as well as reforming and refreshing the law. However, I must accept that there is still more to be done. I am sure that the noble Lord will join me in saying that the Land Registration Bill was a fine piece of work. In that Bill we pulled together 77 years-worth of reform and amendment in one piece of legislation. I am sure that that exercise also gave pleasure to the noble Lord, Lord Renton.

§ Lord Hughes of Woodside
My Lords—

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords—

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)
My Lords, yet again I believe that it is the turn of the noble Lord, Lord Peyton.

§ Lord Peyton of Yeovil
My Lords, twice. Does the noble Baroness not agree that almost total incomprehensibility is not to be regarded as a virtue in legislation? If the noble Baroness requires a little light reading, or something to put her to sleep at night, she should take a look at either the Police Reform Bill or the legislation concerned with the National Health Service—both presently before Parliament. I think that she will find in both of them a cure for insomnia and will have to acknowledge that both are monuments to incomprehensibility.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I understand the point being made by the noble Lord, but I should stress that both Bills must pass through this House and through the other place. If I have learnt only one thing, it is the contrast between the incomprehensibility of a Bill coming to this House and its greatly improved state when it leaves. If a Bill is incomprehensible, I would say to noble Lords, "We have more work to do".

§ Lord Hughes of Woodside
My Lords, is it not the case that the problem is not consolidation of legislation, but the frequency with which it is amended.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, of course amendment is not always in the Government's hands. However, when something needs to be fixed, it is the duty of the Government to ensure that that is done. It is a duty which we have sought to discharge with energy, precision and effectiveness.

§ Lord Cope of Berkeley
My Lords, I am sure we are all grateful to the Minister for complimenting the House on the amendments it has made to legislation 1262 recently. Having said how important consolidation is, can she remind us just how poor the record of the Government is by telling us how few consolidation measures they have initiated by comparison with the previous government.

§ Baroness Scotland of Asthal
My Lords, I do not accept the premise as the number of consolidation Bills does not in fact reflect the amount of reform and consolidation that has taken place. I have mentioned the reform and consolidation inherent in Bills such as the Land Registration Bill and the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Bill. I can tell your Lordships that between 1997 and 1998 there were two measures, the Petroleum Act and the Audit Commission Act. Between 1999 and 2000 there was the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act. I am sure the House will not want me to tire it with all the other Bills that this House and the other place have managed to pass in the past five years, all of which were of great importance to our country and our citizens.

§ Lord Wedderburn of Charlton
My Lords, would my noble friend—

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, it is time for the next Question.