HL Deb 27 June 2002 vol 636 cc1504-6

3.16 p.m.

Baroness Trumpington

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What their reaction is to traffic conditions at Vauxhall Cross and the junction of Vauxhall Bridge and Millbank.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, that is a matter for the Mayor and Transport for London.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I cannot possibly thank the Minister for that reply. Does he realise the spin-off effect on other bridges caused by the chaos at Vauxhall Cross? Can he explain to me why huge pavements have been built at the corners of Vauxhall Bridge north side? Are they there to accommodate vast crowds applauding Ken Livingstone as he queues in his car for the lights to turn green?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I do not know. To be honest, I believe that time for Starred Questions in this House is scarce and valuable. Perhaps I may suggest most humbly to the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, whom I admire and respect, that as far as possible we should restrict our Questions to matters for which Ministers have responsibility. David Jamieson, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Department of Transport, wrote to the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, in response to an earlier undertaking by my noble and learned friend Lord Falconer. Clearly we try to be as helpful as we can on these matters. There is nothing out of order in asking a Question for which Ministers have no responsibility. However, does the House not agree that it would be better if, as far as possible, we concentrated on matters for which Ministers have responsibility?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Question was in order because it was accepted and that he has a responsibility to answer Questions from the Front Bench as best he can? Indeed, the problem at Vauxhall Cross is caused by the Mayor changing the timing of the lights. Will he condemn those changes and answer the Question that he avoided answering last week? Perhaps I may suggest that the reason he should answer it is that significant road safety considerations are now at issue. The Government have a road safety programme, and, unfortunately, at Vauxhall Cross motorists are jumping the lights because they do not change in time. Serious accidents will occur and the Government should address that.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I said in response to the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, that the Question was in order. However, in so far as there is ministerial responsibility, the noble Viscount, Lord Astor, is right to say that there is a ministerial responsibility for road safety.

There are two elements to what has happened at Vauxhall Cross. The first is the rejigging of the road pattern, and I understand that safety elements are involved in that. The other is a cycle and pedestrian scheme, which is very directly connected with road safety because it follows a fatality which occurred a few years ago. That cycle and pedestrian scheme was completed on 16th June. However, the noble Viscount is right to say that there are safety elements to the work at Vauxhall Cross.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords, does the Minister agree that if the Mayor had discharged his traffic responsibilities with even a modicum of diligence there would be no need for my noble friend the ask the Question? Where else can she ask it?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, the responsibilities of the Mayor are to his electorate and to the Greater London Assembly. Members of the Greater London Assembly have full opportunity to question the Mayor and to disagree with him about any of these matters. The same is true of any local authority in this country. On the whole, we do not answer Questions about matters which are the responsibility of individual local authorities.

Lord Elton

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is a parliamentary dimension to this issue for anyone who lives on the south side of the river, such as my noble friend Lady Trumpington and me? It was reported on the radio two or three times last month alone that the estimated delay in crossing Vauxhall Bridge was over one hour. That feeds across to other bridges. From time to time south London is isolated from north London and also from the centre of government as a result of those policies. That must be of interest to the Government.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I am keenly aware of the extent of ministerial responsibility for transport in London. That is why I sought to answer the question raised by the noble Viscount, Lord Astor. However, questions of congestion in Greater London are strictly a matter for the Mayor and for Transport for London. I do not believe there is anything useful I can add.

Lord Dubs

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that there might be merit in considering whether the practice in the House of Commons, whereby Questions for which there is no ministerial responsibility are not accepted, could be adopted at this end of the building?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, that is a matter for the House to decide rather than for an individual Minister. However, I am sure that my friends who are responsible for such matters in the House have heard that question.

Lord Howell of Guildford

My Lords, having once had the dubious responsibility of being Secretary of State for Transport, I clearly recall being asked many times about traffic jams and traffic problems in the capital. I recall being advised that perhaps the best answer was that while such matters were the responsibility of local authorities, it is the duty of the Government, and the proper course to take, to state that they would draw to the attention of the local authority—there was not a mayor in those days—most closely and vigorously the strong concerns of Members of the other place. That would apply now just as much to Members of this House. Is it not the duty of the Government to draw those strong concerns to the attention of the Mayor of London so that he can get a better act together?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, that is a helpful and sensible suggestion. I shall certainly draw to the attention of the Mayor and to Transport for London the concerns which have been expressed.

Lord Renton

My Lords, perhaps I may remind the Minister that my noble friend's Question is analogous to one I asked some days ago about the traffic congestion at the eastern end of Westminster Bridge. In this part of London we have some of the worst traffic congestion and heaviest traffic of anywhere in the United Kingdom. Surely, the Minister for Transport has a responsibility to persuade the local authorities to solve the problem.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I have great difficulty with the concept that the responsibility of the Minister for Transport is to persuade the local authority of his own views on matters which have been devolved to the Mayor and to Transport for London. There is a read back to the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, of which we should be well aware. The noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, thought that the Minister for Transport was not capable of dealing with matters which are devolved to Scotland; and I believe that is true. I shall draw to the attention of the Mayor and Transport for London the concerns raised by the noble Lord, Lord Renton.