HL Deb 30 July 2002 vol 638 cc815-7

11.30 a.m.

Lord Burnham asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are satisfied with the maintenance and state of readiness of the Army's armoured fighting vehicles (AFVs) for action in Afghanistan and other fields following the experience of the battlefield exercise in Oman.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Bach)

My Lords, the Government are satisfied that they can support and sustain the deployment of armoured fighting vehicles on all current operations. The lessons learnt as a result of Saif Sareea in Oman are being taken into account in operational planning.

Lord Burnham

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. In view of the fact that this is the last Question before the Summer Recess, he can consider himself jolly lucky that I withdrew my original Question on the Army's rifle. Is it not the case that about 25 per cent of Challenger tanks are currently out of action, as are a smaller number of Warriors? What steps are being taken to ensure that those vehicles are fitted with filters that will enable them to fight in the troubles in Afghanistan or possibly in Iraq and other such countries?

Lord Bach

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, who is always welcome to ask questions about rifles or anything else he pleases, and I am happy to answer such questions.

There always will be armoured fighting vehicles that are out of action temporarily. The air filter issue was quite separate; we have debated it in your Lordships' House quite sufficiently. The noble Lord knows that we have an excellent armoured fighting vehicle fleet in this country, which is in many ways the envy of the world.

Lord Hardy of Wath

My Lords, will my noble friend say whether the position of the British Army today is better than that in the armies of western European member states of NATO and better than it was a decade ago? Would it not be appropriate to recognise that British armoured fighting vehicles today stand in impressive comparison with international competition?

Lord Bach

My Lords, the answers to those questions are of course "Yes". We have arguably the finest armoured fleet in the world. When using highly sophisticated equipment robustly in demanding environments, as we do, there will from time to time be problems. Frankly, we have a fleet of which we can be proud. That is said not just by retired generals on television but also by those who have to use the equipment.

Lord Vivian

My Lords, while I agree with the Minister that we have the finest armoured vehicles at the moment, as at 31st March this year 64 Challenger 2 tanks were not fully operational in the six front-line operational regiments. How many are still not operational today? Has the skilled labour force been increased to avoid having 11 Challenger 2s lying idle and awaiting work? Can he explain the reason for a crane not being available for an engine lift and will he confirm that there is sufficient workshop space available to repair tanks whenever necessary? Will he confirm that sufficient major assembly spares are now held to allow for immediate repairs, so preventing long periods of delay in repairs to Challenger 2 tanks?

Lord Bach

My Lords, I can confirm, as the noble Lord said, that 64 Challenger 2s were not fully operational. Many of them could become fully operational at literally an hour's notice. The figure is not remarkably high; it was recorded at the end of March, which, I am told, is at the end of the build-up training period of the year. The tanks had been used a great deal during January, February and March. The figure is probably slightly higher than it otherwise would have been; it is not a matter of concern. I had the great pleasure of handing over the 386th Challenger to the Army. I must show the noble Lord the photographs some time.

Lord Mowbray and Stourton

My Lords, will the noble Lord assure me that the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers is able to recruit and is getting the numbers required in that unit?

Lord Bach

My Lords, I cannot tell the noble Lord the answer to his precise question on recruitment, but recruitment generally in the Army is good at the moment. I shall inquire into the situation regarding REME and write to him.

Lord Roper

My Lords, reverting to the original Question, which was about the, experience of the battlefield exercise in Oman", and the lessons learnt, do the Government intend to publish details of the lessons learnt from that exercise and the subsequent operations in Afghanistan?

Lord Bach

My Lords, the Ministry of Defence has published quite a lot recently and I should not want to bore noble Lords or members of the general public with excess reading matter. To give a more serious answer to the noble Lord's question, I shall inquire into whether we intend to publish anything. I do not believe that it is our intention to publish anything on Oman in particular but our attitude has been shown by various Answers in this House and in the other place.

Lord Elton

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I have been sitting here trying very hard to be reassured by his comments? The fact that between 20 and 25 per cent or our main battle tank capacity is out of action during peacetime makes me wonder what things would be like in wartime.

Lord Bach

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord knows better than his question implies. The fact is that all armoured fighting vehicles are from time to time out of action because they need either major or—in most cases—minor repair. If they were needed, they could be put into operation very quickly. The noble Lord should be reassured, as I said. No one has gainsaid the fact that we have an excellent armoured fighting vehicle fleet in this country.