HL Deb 21 November 2001 vol 628 cc1132-5

3.6 p.m.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath

My Lords, I beg to introduce a Bill to prohibit the placing in a woman of a human embryo that has been created otherwise than by fertilisation. I beg to move that this Bill be now read a first time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read a first time.—(Lord Hunt of Kings Heath.)

On Question, Bill read a first time, and to be printed.

Lord Carter

My Lords, following the First Reading of the Human Reproductive Cloning Bill, it may be convenient for the House if I say a few words about the procedure that the usual channels propose for dealing with this urgent piece of legislation. As always, I am extremely grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Cope of Berkeley and Lord Roper, for their co-operation in agreeing the proposed timetable.

The Bill will be printed overnight and will be available in the Printed Paper Office at 9 a.m. tomorrow morning. The Public Bill Office has agreed, exceptionally, to take amendments before Second Reading. Therefore, your Lordships will be able to table amendments from 10 a.m. tomorrow onwards, although I understand that the Bill has been drawn narrowly and amendments will have to be relevant to the Bill as drafted.

We will take Second Reading of the Bill as first business on Monday. The speakers' list has been put up in the Government Whips' Office and any noble Lord who would like to speak in the Second Reading debate may put his or her name down immediately. The deadline for adding names to the speakers' list is 12 noon on Monday.

When we have finished the Second Reading debate, business on the Bill will be adjourned, and the House will deal with the next business on the Order Paper, which will be the completion of the Committee stage of the European Communities (Amendment) Bill. As soon as that is finished, we shall return to the Human Reproductive Cloning Bill and all the remaining stages will then be taken.

In order to allow the House to take the Second Reading and the remaining stages all in one day it will be necessary to suspend Standing Order 46 which prohibits the taking of more than one stage of a Bill in a single day. My noble and learned friend the Leader of the House will table a Motion to that effect, which will be taken at the start of business tomorrow.

Lord Roper

My Lords, on these Benches we find that these proposals make a great deal of sense. We are awaiting the report of the Select Committee chaired by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford, that will give the House an opportunity to discuss wider issues of stem cell research, including the so-called topic of therapeutic cloning. Therefore, we trust that the Bill is drawn in such a way as to avoid substantive amendments.

Lord Cope of Berkeley

My Lords, as the Captain of the Gentlemen-at-Arms said, we have agreed to this procedure in this absolutely exceptional case. The Bill, as he indicated, is exceptionally narrow and it will avoid the single, most appalling potential consequence of the mess that the Government have got themselves into on this occasion. Of course, the other wider consequences remain to be considered at a more leisurely and proper pace.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, on behalf of those noble Lords who are very concerned about this issue perhaps I can register our view. This is a government-induced self-inflicted injury and a constitutional outrage. Will the Chief Whip confirm to the House that what is being outlawed is not the cloning of embryos but the implantation of embryos and that the cloning of embryos will continue unregulated and unlicensed? Is it right that there will be no limitation on the length of time for which an embryo may remain alive and there will be no basis on which consent can be given for the particular scientific practice? As I so profoundly disagree with the Liberal Democrat Front Bench, will it be possible to consider amendments that would put cloning on ice until the Select Committee has reported and until the House has had an opportunity to debate this matter fully?

Lord Alton of Liverpool

My Lords, in supporting the remarks of the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, perhaps I may ask the Government Chief Whip two questions. The first concerns our standing in terms of international jurisprudence. Is the noble Lord aware that the European Parliament on Wednesday last—the day before the High Court judgment—passed a resolution by a majority vote outlawing any European funding for either therapeutic, experimental or reproductive cloning? Secondly, can he say what bearing that will have on the orders?

Further, will the noble Lord confirm and ensure that in the debate on Monday it is mentioned that every one of our European partners has taken a contrary view from us on this issue, as has the American administration? Will he also return to the question that I put to the Minister about the compatibility statement which will appear on the face of the Bill under the duties laid upon us in the Human Rights Act? Can the noble Lord also say whether officials have this time— unlike in January last when they clearly failed to give proper advice to the Minister—looked at whether there is a clash with Articles 2 and 14 of the Convention on Human Rights—Article 14 being read with Article 2 for the purposes of the Bill?

Lord Carter

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Roper and Lord Cope, for their comments and support. The noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, referred to constitutional outrage. The Government and everyone involved in this issue thought that human cloning was banned. The judge took a different view. In the light of his judgment—only in the light of that judgment—the Government have brought forward emergency legislation to deal with the loophole, the existence of which has arisen only in the last few days. It deals only with that matter.

If the noble Lords carefully read Hansard they will see that my noble friend Lord Hunt gave a very full Answer to the starred Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, dealing with the matter of human reproductive cloning.

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, asked me about the international jurisprudence of the European Parliament and the European Convention on Human Rights. As I understand the matter, my noble friend was advised and was able to sign the Bill as being compliant with the Human Rights Act.