HL Deb 21 November 2001 vol 628 cc1131-2

3 p.m.

Lord Smith of Clifton

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What are the specific terms of reference of the review of public bodies announced on 16th November and to be headed by Ms Pam Alexander; and when it will be expected to report.

The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn)

My Lords, the Question is based on a misapprehension. Ms Alexander is not leading a review of public bodies. She is leading a review of policy on executive agencies. The terms of reference of that review were announced to Parliament on 7th March 2001, and are lengthy. I am sure your Lordships will excuse me from reading them out as they are already to be found in Hansard for March of this year. In respect of the last part of the Question, the review is expected to report to Ministers around the turn of the year.

Lord Smith of Clifton

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response. Perhaps I may be forgiven for not being fully aware of the distinction between non-executive bodies, quangos, task forces and the whole range of denizens that dwell in the demi-monde. Does the Minister agree that there is a case for looking at the vast plethora of unconstitutional mutations? I was concerned that the lady who is to chair the review has had experience of English Heritage. I hope that that is not a portent that some of these denizens will become part of the English constitutional heritage.

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, there is nothing mutative and there is nothing unconstitutional about the use of task forces, ad hoc advisory groups or reviews. They are sensible tools when properly used for the efficient conduct of public business.

Lord Roberts of Conwy

My Lords, can the noble and learned Lord confirm that in the lengthy terms of reference for this inquiry the word "accountability" occurs? Can he confirm that all the executive agencies to which he has referred can be called to appear before the Public Accounts Committee in the other place to account for their cost to public funds?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, the last sentence of the terms of reference is: how best to secure transparency and thoroughness in reporting on agency matters including performance to the public The penultimate sentence is: how to ensure that agencies have in place appropriate corporate governance including the roles of ministerial advisory boards and independent advisors". The thrust of the review is, I hope, to produce the consequence that the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, wants; namely, openness and accountability.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, what is the difference between an executive agency and a task force?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, it will not amaze noble Lords that an executive agency is an agency that carries out executive functions. Similarly, it will not surprise your Lordships that a task force is a force set up to carry out a particular to for example, the extremely effective, universally applauded Human Rights Task Force set up by the then Home Secretary in the Home Office to put into effect the Human Rights Act over a period of about 18 months.

Baroness Blatch

My Lords, can the noble and learned Lord tell the House in what way the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, is responsible and accountable to this House for the work that he carries out in the name of the British taxpayer?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, it seems to me that there is no disentitlement to any noble Lord put down a question or to seek a short debate. My recent experience this afternoon demonstrates that it is possible to ask even unpopular questions in your Lordships' House.

Lord Saatchi

My Lords, does the noble and learned Lord agree that the 30,000 people who work in quangos are owed a duty of care by the Government who employ them so that they can be rescued from the mockery and mistrust that the word "quango" now evokes? What plans do the Government have to deal with that?

Lord Williams of Mostyn

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Saatchi, with his vast experience in the advertising industry, will know that it is reality and not apparent perception that matters.