Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland (Hansard, 17 December 2001)

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, we have no plans to review the powers and role of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland.

§ Lord Glentoran
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for that Answer. I had anticipated one as brief. I hope, nevertheless, that he is aware of matters that are occurring in Northern Ireland in reference to that office. Is the noble and learned Lord aware that in the recent review from the ombudsman on the Omagh bomb, the Chief Constable was condemned without ever being heard, to such an extent that legal action is threatened? Furthermore, does he agree that a report which tells only one half of the story is totally worthless?
Finally, can he tell the House who is responsible for ensuring that the ombudsman carries out her duty, To enhance public confidence in the police", in a satisfactory manner and within the law?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, one needs to be quite cautious here and to disentangle what is in the report, which has not been published so far as I am aware to anyone other than the Secretary of State, the Chief Constable and the Policing Board.

§ Lord Glentoran
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for giving way. My information comes from my friend in the other House, Mr Quentin Davies, who has read it.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I am not disputing that Mr Davies may or may not have read the report, I am simply repeating my factually correct observation that it has not been published.
There is the prospect, I am told, of legal action by the Chief Constable. He wishes to have his opportunity to respond fully to the final report. We should give the Chief Constable the opportunity to take legal action if he wants. That will be a form of legal constraint, to which the noble Lord referred, on the ombudsman. He should have his opportunity to make his observations. I am taking no sides in this particular dispute because I do not regard myself as sufficiently well informed. All I can say is that, having 10 known the Chief Constable and worked with him over several years, I have always found him to he a public servant of the highest quality.

§ Baroness Park of Monmouth
My Lords, can I ask the noble and learned Lord what the remit of the ombudsman is so far as concerns South of the Border? I think that he would agree that the Omagh operation began in Dundalk and that necessarily therefore the RUC and the Garda have both been involved and worked together. Does the ombudsman have access to Garda papers and documents, as she has in the case of the RUC? If not, is it not strange that she should make a professional judgment based on half the evidence?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I repeat my cautionary words. The noble Baroness will not have been able to read the full report. The ombudsman has to exercise her powers by United Kingdom statute. She has to have regard to the efficiency, effectiveness and independence of the police complaints system and the confidence of the public and of members of the police force in that system. I do not know whether the ombudsman had access to Garda papers. What she was rightly concerned with was a serious criminal act within the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland. She was entitled to carry out the inspection. My information is that the Chief Constable has publicly and honourably said that if the ombudsman had not started her investigation he would have invited her to do so.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is it not a strange Alice in Wonderland world where the security services and the Chief Constable are attacked and excoriated, while the people who actually carried out the bombing and caused such carnage get off scot-free and with apparently no criticism?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I do not accept that for a single second. No one has failed to criticise on any appropriate public or private occasion the wanton criminality and the cruel wickedness of those who carried out that bomb attack. We are dealing with a system that was set up prior to the attack in Omagh. It was set up with the support of the chief constable of Northern Ireland. It is a statutory regime which allows an ombudsman to carry out certain inquiries. I do not know sufficiently well whether she has reached a right or a wrong judgment. The Chief Constable is entitled to his opportunity to make a full response. But I utterly repudiate the suggestion that no one has criticised those who carried out those wicked acts.

§ Lord Smith of Clifton
My Lords, does the Minister agree that there is nevertheless need for a greater and tighter delineation between the role of the Police Ombudsman and the functions of the Policing Board? Does he further agree that when, as all too often happens, an investigation about the police takes place in Northern Ireland, relevant documents invariably go 11 missing? That detracts from, not adds to, the reputation of the police. Does he agree that that is a criminal offence?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I am sorry if documents go missing or witnesses are not available. Self-evidently, the noble Lord is right: if documents are wilfully disposed of or secreted, that may be a criminal offence—I know that it has been prosecuted as such.