Scottish Parliament Building (Hansard, 2 March 2000)

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, there has been no such approach.

§ Baroness Carnegy of Lour
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that not entirely unsurprising reply. Does the noble Baroness accept that the decision to build the Scots Parliament at a cost of £50 million was made by the Westminster Government before devolution was implemented and that, therefore, members of the Scots Parliament had no part in it? Does the Minister accept that that £50 million was only for the shell of the building? It did not include purchasing the site, demolition work, furniture, fittings, fees nor reasonable changes to the specification. The total cost is now between £120 million and £200 million.
In view of that massive error, will the Government ensure that the extra sum required, at any rate for the original project, will be added to the Scots Parliament's allocation from the Treasury; or will the Scots alone have to fund it out of the tartan tax or by cutting expenditure on hospitals and schools?

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, there is so much confusion and misinformation in that question that I do not quite know where to begin. Perhaps I may deal with some facts. The initial estimate of the construction cost was £50 million, excluding site acquisition. VAT, fees and fittings. That was always made very clear in this House and in another place. Indeed, I have many Hansard references, if the noble Baroness would like to have those.
The construction cost estimate subsequently increased to £62 million. That reflected changes to the original outline specification, including the provision of a formal entrance, increased circulation space and increased staff accommodation. That was all taking into account the work of the consultative steering group, which was an all-party group, on how the parliament should operate.
The legal and financial responsibility for the project passed to the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body—the SPCB—on 1st June 1999. In June 1999, the cost of the building was estimated to be £109 million. That figure includes the £62 million construction costs which I mentioned earlier, VAT, fees, site acquisition and works, fitting out and provision of IT. I understand that provision for costs totalling £109 million has been made in spending plans for the Scottish Parliament. Those are the facts.

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, my noble friend Lady Carnegy of Lour did not dispute that it was £50 million plus VAT and a few other things, 661 totalling, as I recall, when the noble Lord, Lord Sewel, announced this to your Lordships' House, no more than about £80 million. The figure is now over £230 million for what is now being called "Donald's Dome" because it was Donald Dewar, when Secretary of State, who announced that. Will John Reid, the current holder of the office, fulfil the obligations which his predecessor laid down to fund that? Will he therefore fund it out of his budget and not ask for fewer Scottish policemen or nurses because of the money needed to fund Donald's Dome?

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, I do not know where all those figures are coming from, other than from the pages of the Scottish press. I am sorry not to see the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, in his place today. On Tuesday, during the Report stage of the Representation of the People Bill, he tossed around a figure of £280 million. I am not quite sure whether or not that was the figure used by the noble Lord, Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish. I do not know where those figures are coming from.
As I told your Lordships, the last official factual figure is the £109 million. But as everyone is aware who reads the Scottish press and who pays attention to these matters, the Presiding Officer announced to the parliament on 24th February that he had commissioned an assessment to allow the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body to give MSPs a complete and detailed report with sufficiently robust information on cost and timetable. He confirmed that the review will be carried out by independent assessors; will assess the current position of the project; and will advise the SPCB ahead of its report to MSPs next month.

§ Lord Thomson of Monifieth
My Lords, will the Minister agree that the responsibility for a matter like this was very clearly and consciously devolved by this Parliament to the parliament in Edinburgh during the proceedings on the Scotland Act? In those circumstances, would it not be altogether better to leave those responsibilities to the Scottish Parliament responsible to the Scottish electorate without back-seat driving from this Chamber?
Will the Minister further agree that, while ensuring value for money, of course, the parliament building in Edinburgh is being built for posterity, far beyond the horizons of the peevish Scottish press and that we should have a building of which Scotland can be proud?

§ Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, I could not agree more with every word that the noble Lord said.