HL Deb 03 November 1999 vol 606 cc871-3

2.49 p.m.

The Countess of Mar

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether it is their policy to consider the employment policies of the companies to which they award contracts for the provision of veterinary services to the Meat Hygiene Service.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Baroness Hayman)

Yes, my Lords. The Government expect all contractors fully to comply with the legal obligations placed on them as employers. In awarding contracts for the provision of veterinary services, the Meat Hygiene Service follows government best procurement practice and complies with all relevant statutory provisions.

The Countess of Mar

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. Is she aware that some anomalies seem to be creeping into the terms and conditions for the employment of official veterinary surgeons, particularly those from other European countries? I shall not tire the House with details, some of which have been reported in the press. Will the noble Baroness kindly agree to meet, with me, one or two of the veterinary surgeons concerned, so that we can be absolutely clear as to what is fact and what is fiction in an attempt to resolve these matters?

Baroness Hayman

Yes, my Lords. I am grateful for the way in which the noble Countess phrased her request. She was kind enough to alert me to her concerns, which, as she says, have been reported in the press. They are of such a serious nature that I asked Meat Hygiene Service auditors to visit one company yesterday and to hold extensive discussions with the directors and some of the staff involved. They were given full access to company records. Of course, if concerns remain or if individuals have concerns, I am happy to investigate those and to meet the noble Countess. I am also happy to facilitate her meeting with the Meat Hygiene Service or the companies concerned if that seems sensible.

Lord Luke

My Lords, Regulation 8(1) of the Fresh Meat (Hygiene and Inspection) Regulations 1995 states that an official veterinary surgeon can be appointed only by the Minister. If that is not the case, who is running the Meat Hygiene Service? Is it not time that the Government took a proper grip on the business aspects of all these contracts?

Baroness Hayman

My Lords, I made it clear in my initial Answer that the Government do take a proper grip on the business aspects of the contracts. The contract referred to was awarded in line with government best procurement practice. I can reassure the noble Lord that contract OVSs are designated by the Minister as official veterinary surgeons, and hold warrants of authorisation issued by the Minister appointing them to act as authorised officers of the Minister in licensed premises. Whether on a contract or directly employed, an OVS must operate according to the operations manual of the Meat Hygiene Service.

Lord Willoughby de Broke

My Lords, why do the Government or the Meat Hygiene Service feel it necessary to employ fully qualified veterinary surgeons for meat inspection tasks, when none of our European Union competitors does the same and there are derogations under the relevant directive to allow a lower-cost inspection regime?

Baroness Hayman

My Lords, I query the correctness of the noble Lord's comment. Other European countries have exactly the same problems in providing appropriate levels of veterinary supervision. I understand that the Dutch are recruiting extensively in Germany, as the noble Lord is well aware because of his keen interest in these areas. We have looked carefully at whether veterinary surgeons have to be employed to carry out supervision, and the advice we have received is that they do.

Lord Hylton

My Lords, when considering these employment matters will the Government bear in mind the national interest in having the widest possible range of small and local abattoirs?

Baroness Hayman

Yes, my Lords. We have listened to the concerns of the industry about the future of small abattoirs which often provide an important service to local communities and, for example, to organic farming. My right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture announced in September a series of measures to help the industry, including clarification from the EU that low-throughput slaughterhouses would not be required to have full-time supervision by a veterinary surgeon during post-mortem inspections.

Viscount Thurso

My Lords, the noble Baroness referred to "best procurement practice". Can she assure the House that that does not simply mean "cheapest" but "best value", which should include those who are properly fitted for the task, including knowledge of the language and even culture?

Baroness Hayman

Yes, my Lords. This issue has been raised particularly in the context of overseas veterinary surgeons. We have taken steps to ensure that they have adequate training and a grasp of the English language in order to be able to carry out their duties. The Meat Hygiene Service is also undertaking a programme of continued professional development to ensure that the people who are employed are able to fulfil those tasks.