§ 2.55 p.m.
Lord Bruce of Doningtonasked Her Majesty's Government:
When and under what circumstances a "gentleman's agreement" was reached between the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament by virtue of which the Council does not present the draft budget relating to the expenditure of the latter, and whether Her Majesty's then government agreed or did not oppose this arrangement.
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, the Council of Ministers agreed to a declaration on 22nd April 1970 that committed it not to modify the administrative budget for the European Parliament during the annual budgetary process in so far as it did not infringe Community legislation. This agreement was made before United Kingdom accession to the European Economic Community.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for that reply, in which he disclaimed any responsibility on the part of Her Majesty's Government and their immediate predecessors for this arrangement. Is my noble friend aware that guarantees between two institutions within the Community run oddly with the Community's manifest desire to distribute cascades of written documents and agreements among everybody else? Is it not a little odd that in a specific segment of the Community's affairs it should not issue documents that can be checked in the normal way rather than have understandings with one each other? Is my noble 874 friend aware that this operates not only between the Council and the European Parliament but between the Commission and the European Parliament whereby, in return for treating the Commission's staff requirements somewhat indulgently for next year, the Commission for its part has agreed not to examine too closely the expenses and salaries of Members of the European Parliament and the expenditure on buildings, which more recently has been without any legal authority whatever? Can my noble friend give an assurance that Her Majesty's Government will now treat these matters very seriously and follow the edict of our own National Audit Board in reviewing the accounts; namely, that all fiddles ultimately lead to fraud?
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, it was my noble friend who used the phrase "gentleman's agreement". I made reference to a declaration, and there is nothing secret about that. My noble friend is quite right that all of the five administrative budgets within the European Union are non-compulsory and are under the control of the Government, which is why the various institutions of the Union have made these agreements. My noble friend is the most conspicuous and devoted consumer of these cascades of paper, not only in this House but probably anywhere in Europe. There must be control over the expenditure of the European Parliament and European institutions as a whole, and the Prime Minister has supported root and branch investigation of expenditure, particularly mismanagement and fraud. We have every confidence in Neil Kinnock as Vice-President for Administration Reform who is responsible for this work.
§ Lord SaatchiMy Lords, as this gentleman's agreement, or whatever it is called, was entered into almost 30 years ago before the UK joined the EEC, is it not time for the Government to call for a review of the procedure? Has that not become urgent in the light of the Minister's Written Answer of 22nd July in which he disclosed that the European Parliament cost the UK double the cost of your Lordships' House and yet sat for only one third the number of days? In the light of the astonishing changes in the EU over the past 30 years, is it not now time for an open, transparent and accountable system so that the European Parliament is able to scrutinise the spending of the Council of Ministers, and vice versa?
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for drawing attention to the answer which I gave in July. I find his comments about investigation and transparency a little odd in the light of the failure of Conservative MEPs to vote for the application of the new anti-fraud commission, OLAF, to the European Parliament. Labour MEPs voted for that; Conservative MEPs failed to vote and failed to have it approved.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, will my noble friend correct the statement made by the noble Lord, Lord Saatchi, that the European Parliament costs just double that of the House of Lords? I believe that the figure should be 20 times as much.
§ Lord McIntosh of HaringeyMy Lords, there is an honest confusion. The noble Lord, Lord Saatchi, was referring to the total cost. My noble friend is referring to the cost per Member of the European Parliament.