Public Transport: Use by the Blind (Hansard, 21 June 1999)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions (Lord Whitty)
My Lords, the report highlights many issues that we are already tackling. The regulations that we are introducing under the Disability Discrimination Act, which require new buses, trains and taxis to be designed to be accessible to disabled people, include features to meet the needs of visually impaired people. We shall continue to work closely with blind people and their organisations to ensure that those improvements, together with greater emphasis on driver training and information, enable blind people to travel with confidence.

§ Lord Addington
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Will he agree that the most fundamental problem that faces many blind and partially sighted people in this country is the use of pavements? If such people cannot walk to public transport facilities, those facilities are useless to them. Will the Government inform the House what progress they have made under the proposed national walking strategy for making pavements more accessible to blind and partially sighted people, particularly in relation to issues such as the abuse of pavements by cyclists and parking on pavements?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, of course, both instances referred to by the noble Lord are already road traffic offences and action should be taken on them. The more general question of clutter on pavements needs to be tackled by local authorities. In some cases, areas regarded as pavements are, in fact, private property and therefore there is an inhibition on the powers of local authorities to act in those circumstances.

§ Lord Rix
My Lords, is the Minister aware that this morning the Minister for disabled people, Margaret Hodge, launched MENCAP's latest report on bullying of people with learning disabilities, Living in Fear? There is a large section in that report devoted to public transport, where apparently bullying by passengers and staff alike takes place. What steps can the Minister take to ensure that public transport companies lay down 644 correct anti-harassment policies for their staff and passengers, including complaints procedures which are readily understood by people with learning disabilities?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, in relation to transport operators we have undertaken to try to ensure that better staff training exists for all those who deal with people with all forms of handicap as part of the buses package; for example, under the Disability Discrimination Act, which will amend conduct regulations in order to place duties on drivers to use the equipment provided in the main regulations. Similarly, the rail regulators' code of practice attempts to achieve the same objective among train operators.
As regards general passengers, we are taking steps in relation to buses, trains and London Underground to improve the knowledge of the public complaints procedure. It is true that there are difficulties of access at the moment and we are asking the operators to address such difficulties.

§ Lord Morris of Manchester
My Lords, naturally I share the concern of the noble Lord, Lord Addington, about the RNIB's findings, more particularly as they affect blind and partially sighted people seeking work, and I am grateful to my noble friend for his reply. Is he aware of the deep appreciation felt, not least by Ian Bruce and Alyn Thomas for the RNIB, for the positive way in which my noble friend, Lord Boston, as Chairman of Committees, has pursued the suggestions made in the House to help noble Lords with severe visual impairments?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, I appreciate my noble friend's remarks. I am sure that the Chairman of Committees will also be most appreciative. It is important that the Houses of Parliament show a lead in this area.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, does the Minister agree that, even for an able-bodied person, the silent approach from behind of people on roller-blades can be terrifying? Can the Minister tell me whether roller-blading on pavements is an offence?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, I am not sure that I can say that it is an offence. Clearly, to use pavements in a dangerous manner, with the possibility of creating a danger to other pedestrians, is an offence. I do not believe that roller-blading is a specified offence, but I believe that the police have powers in that area.

§ The Earl of Longford
My Lords, as a partially sighted person perhaps I may thank the staff of this House. All those who have a disability, whether optical or otherwise, owe a great deal to them and perhaps I may at least convey our gratitude to them.

§ Baroness Thomas of Walliswood
My Lords—

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, my noble friend's remarks are primarily for the House authorities and the staff, but I associate myself with them.

§ Baroness Thomas of Walliswood
My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord. I have no wish to be rude to anybody. 645 Does the Minister agree that a large number of older people are among whose who have sight disabilities? Therefore, in addition to the other inequalities that they face, they are often imprisoned in their own homes; they cannot drive and cannot use public transport. Can the Minister say whether they are included in the category of blind and disabled? They are often not included and we have to keep making this point.

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, the noble Baroness is right that there are a large number of partially sighted and blind people with other forms of disability among the older members of the population. It is important that public transport policy is designed to increase access for those who would not otherwise have it, in particular those who cannot themselves drive a car.

Earl Attlee
My Lords, can the Minister say when he will implement Section 37 of the Disability Discrimination Act and oblige minicab drivers to accept guide dogs without extra charge and without discrimination?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, perhaps I can write to the noble Earl in that regard.

§ Lord Archer of Weston-Super-Mare
My Lords, the Minister has obviously read the RNIB report. Did he note that the blind and partially sighted are requesting that, within London Underground, stations should be announced? Those who come to work in London and go home every day by public transport have to sit and count the stops because they do not know where they are, or they have to search around for someone to tell them. Will the Minister look into that?

§ Lord Whitty
My Lords, yes. The issue of audible travel information is very important on the Underground, on train services and even at bus stops. It needs to be done in such a way that it is not intrusive elsewhere, but it is an important part of access to information for the blind.