Denis Nilsen: Poems (Hansard, 21 June 1999)

§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Williams of Mostyn)
My Lords, under Prison Service standing orders prisoners are allowed to submit works of literary merit for publication but only through charitable 646 organisations approved by the Prison Service. Mr. Nilsen has been advised of the correct procedures for doing that.

§ The Earl of Longford
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister, but that is a fairly disingenuous reply. Not long ago I applied, on behalf of Mr. Nilsen, whom I have been visiting for five years, for permission to allow his poems to be published. Although the Minister may be excellent in all other ways, on that occasion he refused permission. There is no doubt but that Mr. Nilsen was refused permission. So let us be thankful for small mercies. Do not let us look a gift horse in the mouth. But the end is not yet, and I have to talk to people seriously concerned with prison writing as to the next step forward.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I want to make the situation absolutely plain. I am conscious of the great distress that the prospect of this publication may occasion to relatives and they have every right to have their anxieties attended to. Mr. Nilsen has been given permission for nothing. He has simply been told what are the provisions of Standing Order 4 and that if he wishes to pursue the possibility of publication under that provision, which is a pre-existing scheme, he can submit his request. I stress, because two newspapers at least have got it wrong and I received a most moving solicitor's letter today, that Mr. Nilsen has been given permission for nothing. He has been told that he can apply.

§ The Earl of Longford
My Lords, perhaps I may respond quickly. To be honest, that is the most extraordinary answer ever given. Last week Mr. Nilsen was refused permission to have his poems published. Now it has been granted. So to say he has been given permission for nothing is not worthy of the eminent Lord.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, it is worthy that I tell the House the true position. What has happened is that Nilsen, who is serving life sentences for many cruel and wicked murders, has been given the relevant information and told that he may submit his request.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, the explanation the Minister has given is wholly acceptable, certainly to me.

§ Lord Cope of Berkeley
My Lords, the Minister is quite right in seeking to ensure that standing orders are complied with thoroughly. It would be wrong for a prisoner to profit from the poetry.

§ The Earl of Longford
My Lords—

Noble Lords
Order!

§ Lord Cope of Berkeley
It is therefore correct that proceeds from writing should go to charity, as set out in the noble Earl's Question. That is an important point. 647 However, there is also the difficulty of judging literary merit. Who will judge the literary merit here? Will the Minister have to do so? If so, he has my sympathy.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
No, my Lords. Judging literary merit, apart from the content of noble Lords' questions, is not one of my functions. This is a very serious matter. We are talking about a balance which it is almost impossible to draw. There are rights given under existing Prison Service standing orders, and there is no one I know in your Lordships' House who will not be affected by the prospect of further grief and distress caused to the loved ones of those whom Nilsen cruelly murdered. It may assist your Lordships, and I hope others, that I can say that the Prison Service intends to review standing orders because there is public concern about the publication of material by prisoners. Moreover, we are also approaching the date of 2nd October of next year for the implementation of the Human Rights Act. Therefore, this is an opportune time to carry out such scrutiny.

§ Lord Dholakia
My Lords, I appreciate the Minister's reply and I agree with it. However, does he agree that there are a number of prisoners who are writers in residence and who try to develop the literacy and poetic skills of the inmates in prison, not all of whom are mass murderers? Indeed, some of them are fairly short-term prisoners. Therefore, would it not be better if such standing orders were brought to the attention not only of the prison authorities but also of the inmates, including writers in residence, so that good work could actually be published and appreciated by others?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I repeat my earlier assurance that Mr Nilsen had the relevant standing orders brought to his attention. The noble Lord is quite right. There are many of us in this House who have welcomed the work of the Koestler Awards over the years. In the nature of things, that means the opportunity to produce artwork or literary work for fairly modest prizes. That is why I said earlier—and I do not think I can escape this—that it is a very difficult, if not impossible, balance to draw. One has to bear all these delicate susceptibilities in mind.

§ The Earl of Longford
My Lords, I must make it quite plain that it was suggested from the beginning that the money should not go to Nilsen. When I wrote to the Minister previously making it plain that any money received would not go to Nilsen, the application was declined. The decision has now been reversed. So let us get that clear.

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, I almost said, "I hope for the last time", but even I am not that optimistic. Nilsen has been told that he can apply. I agree with the noble Earl that it is very important where the money goes. However, many relatives say that that is not their main concern; it is the resurrection of memories that they hoped had been calmed. I think they have a legitimate interest that should at least be taken into account.

§ Lord McNally
My Lords, on that very point, the Minister will recall that when the Mary Bell issue was debated in this House he promised an internal review by the Home Office of the wider issue of convicted criminals—and not just those still in prison—writing their memoirs. Can the noble Lord tell us what stage that review has reached and when we can hope to have the findings?

§ Lord Williams of Mostyn
My Lords, the review is still continuing. The noble Lord is quite right. It is a different matter because, in Mary Bell's case, she had long since served her sentence. Again, there are exceptionally difficult legal and moral problems to be grappled with; indeed, they are not at all easy, as I have discovered to my cost.