HL Deb 28 October 1997 vol 582 cc973-5

2.54 p.m.

Lord Jenkins of Putneyasked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, having regard to the information published in Australia concerning the number of people over 75 who committed suicide in the period 1990–94 and the means they used to kill themselves, similar statistics can be obtained for this country and, if so, whether they will collect and publish them.

The Minister of State, Department of Health (Baroness Jay of Paddington)

My Lords, statistics on suicide are routinely collected as part of the death registration system. Data on the means used by people aged 75 and over to kill themselves are published for England and Wales by the Office for National Statistics (formerly the Office of Population Censuses and Surveys) in Series DH2. Statistics on individual causes of death by age are published for Scotland in the Annual Report of the Registrar General for Scotland, and for Northern Ireland in the Annual Report of the Registrar General for Northern Ireland.

I can give my noble friend the headlines of the information he requires, if he would like them. However, as I said, the detailed information is publicly available.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer. However, do not the figures so far as we have them confirm that in this country and elsewhere we are now enabling people to live beyond the age they wish to live? I am not yet in that condition myself, despite my vast age. But I and many people think it absurd that while doctors are known generally to assist people to depart, every now and then the law catches up with one and charges him with murder. That is absurd. Is it not time that we considered seriously this matter to enable a doctor under suitable precautions to enable people to do that which they wish when their wish is to leave this earth?

Baroness Jay of Paddington

My Lords, I am delighted that my noble friend has no wish to leave us. We certainly have no wish for him to leave us. In view of his rather gloomy universal point, I should indicate that in England and Wales, for which the precise figures are given, there were only 355 suicides in that age group in the last recorded year. That is perhaps too many, but that is out of a total of 326,558 deaths. Therefore I believe that one can feel it is not yet a major problem even though my noble friend is concerned.

As regards doctors giving medication or other support to people who wish to commit suicide, my noble friend will realise that the Government have no intention to promote the cause of voluntary euthanasia although we understand the vigorous public debate in that area.

Earl Howe

My Lords, the Question asked by the noble Lord is germane to the wider debate as to whether a so-called advance directive which an individual may make when he or she is healthy should be legally binding when that individual becomes mentally incapable. To what extent do the Government think that there is a valid case for clarifying the existing law by introducing a Bill on this sensitive subject of mental incapacity?

Baroness Jay of Paddington

My Lords, as the House will be aware, my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor gave notice last week that he was investigating these matters through a Green Paper on mental incapacity which followed the report of the Law Commission on this subject. The Law Commission took the view—it is one which the Government are now considering—that, as the noble Lord suggests, people should be encouraged and enabled to take decisions that they are capable of making when they have mental capacity. That includes the ability to plan ahead for a time when they have lost capacity to consent to or refuse medical treatment. But of course that advance directive could not include a requirement for an illegal act.

Lord Ashley of Stoke

My Lords, the Minister is always helpful, although she was unable to give a very helpful reply today. Is she aware that although I disagree with euthanasia, I believe that the time has come to think more sympathetically about the request made by my noble friend?

Baroness Jay of Paddington

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend who has raised this issue on several previous occasions in your Lordships' House. I believe that we have had helpful discussions about it. We recognise that there are differing views about the range of responses which should be available to people at different stages of their life. Wherever possible patients should have some choice in their treatments and care. But the law does not permit euthanasia, and only requires that sometimes the level of medication necessary to control the overall symptoms in a patient may shorten life. It is a matter that we have discussed previously in your Lordships' House; it has the rather interesting title of the double effect. However, that is not an issue connected with voluntary euthanasia.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, is the Minister aware that a new organisation has been set up in the past year to seek to help farmers who perhaps intend taking their own lives? I must declare an interest as a patron. If anyone wishes to have further details perhaps they will get in touch with me. I shall see them on their way!

Baroness Jay of Paddington

My Lords, I must say the number of Members of this House who seem inclined to use a rather forward-looking description of their activities is rather intriguing. The noble Baroness will probably be aware, since she takes an interest in the subject, that the Department of Health has commissioned Professor Keith Hawton specifically to carry out research in the area of suicide among farmers. It is a matter that is of concern to us.

Lord Mishcon

My Lords, is my noble friend aware—as I am sure she is—that very recently this House set up a Select Committee to deal with medical ethics and the matters just referred to? Is she further aware that it had a most noble, learned and experienced membership?

Baroness Jay of Paddington

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for pointing that out. I was indeed a member of the committee.