§ 3.9 p.m.
The Earl of Clanwilliamasked Her Majesty's Government:
Why BSE records of United Kingdom herds are available to the European Commission but not to United Kingdom farmers buying livestock.
§ The Parliamentary Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Donoughue)My Lords, each week the numbers of cases of BSE confirmed by county are made available to the European Community in accordance with Council Directive 82/894. This does not include information about individual herds. Cumulative statistics of cases of BSE confirmed by county in Great Britain are placed in the Library of the House once per month.
The Earl of ClanwilliamMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. However, will he accept that, when a farmer buys a beast from a herd, he requires to know that the herd is certified as being free of BSE? If that were not the case it would be impossible for organic farmers in particular to maintain the standard of their herds. In addition, is it not true that the government-sponsored body, UKROFS—the regulatory organisation for organic farms—is unable to regulate herds unless it knows that the beasts have been bought from BSE-free farms? Will the Minister make 571 arrangements to re-instate the procedures that were available, according to the letter from Mr. Rooker to Mr. Woodward of 18th August? I believe that the Minister is aware of the letter, which states that:
Arrangements to re-instate the procedures for computer checks for BSE history against the pre-ban export criteria… to make this information available to, or by permission of, occupiers of holdings or registered owners of herd marks are now being put in hand in Animal Health Offices".Can the Minister say whether that procedure has been put in hand yet and, if it has not, why not?
§ Lord DonoughueMy Lords, we are aware of the problems faced by organic farmers. However, the information on disease control available to Europe and previously often accessed by organic farmers was obtained under a different heading or under a different Act. I am legally advised that information obtained under one heading cannot be provided under another. There are also constraints of commercial confidentiality. If it helps the noble Earl, I can tell him that we have instructed our officers to make available the relevant information with the permission of the owner or the seller. That will take place quite shortly.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, in connection with the provision to the European Commission of particulars relating to BSE, will the Minister give the House an undertaking that the recent report of the Court of Auditors on the scandalous expenditure—much of it fraudulent—under that head will be given specific attention by the Government? Will he also ensure that a copy of that report, which I understand is now available in this country, will be made available to Members at the earliest possible opportunity?
§ Lord DonoughueMy Lords, we normally try to meet my noble friend's gentle requests. I can assure him that it is the Government's policy to root out fraud, wherever it exists.
§ Baroness Anelay of St. JohnsMy Lords, can the Minister guarantee the accuracy of the BSE records of UK herds which are held at the Commission? What progress has he made in persuading his colleagues in Europe that the records of BSE in continental herds which are held at the Commission should be accurate and not under-reported, as is the case at present?
§ Lord DonoughueMy Lords, yes. I have to say that our records are not perfect. We provide to the European Union and the Commission the records at the time of notification in a location, which is a county. As time passes, animals move and the records are not totally reliable.
572 As regards European Union records, I am sure that they are as perfect as ours. The noble Baroness will he aware that in some European countries where there have been cases of BSE whole herds have been destroyed. That is the state of play on the records.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, can my noble friend tell me exactly how much has so far been expended in relation to matters of BSE and how many cases of CJD related to BSE there have been so far?
§ Lord DonoughueMy Lords, the costs so far are running at about £3.4 billion, and they will rise towards £4 billion. There have been 22 cases of CJD in the United Kingdom: 21 certain and one probable. There is one case on the continent, in France.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, in his original Answer the Minister said that the relevant statistics were available in the Library of the House. Can he tell me what good that is to the average farmer?
§ Lord DonoughueMy Lords, those statistics are also available, if the average farmer—as he has often done in the past—contacts the Ministry of Agriculture. He can also obtain the statistics through the National Farmers Union.