HL Deb 28 February 1997 vol 578 cc1466-8

2.30 p.m.

The Earl of Courtown rose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 27th January be approved [15th Report from the Deregulation Committee].

The noble Earl said: My Lords, this order amends the Betting, Gaming and Lotteries Act 1963 to extend from one year to three years the duration of betting permits and licences. It has been scrutinised by both deregulation committees, which recommended minor amendments to the order, which has now been redrafted to the committees' satisfaction.

The main benefit of the order is that bookmakers will not have to apply every year for renewal of their permits and licences. The order contains a new power to cancel betting office licences. The committees were satisfied that the order contains sufficient protections for the betting public.

This is a modest deregulation measure which will relieve some of the red tape on the betting industry. I beg to move.

Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 27th January be approved [15th Report from the Deregulation Committee].—(The Earl of Courtown.)

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, the noble Earl describes this as a modest measure. It is indeed. There is nothing wrong with it. However, last year we had another modest measure in relation to betting shops which referred to the angle of the television screen and whether it could be seen from the door. We are playing silly games with betting shops, are we not? We try to make them into places that are deliberately unattractive.

I have no desire to go into a betting shop, but this approach reminds me of when I was at university in the state of Ohio, where all spirits had to be sold by state liquor stores with blank windows. You went in through one door, went up to a counter and put in a slip saying that you wanted your whisky, gin or whatever it was. You then went to another counter and were given the whisky or gin carefully put into a brown paper bag, and you were supposed to slink out feeling guilty. I sometimes feel that the Government want people who go into betting shops to think like that. Why can we not have the proper deregulation of betting shops, and not do it slice by slice in this way?

The Viscount of Falkland

Oh dear, my Lords. Now we have gone down this track of betting, I shall merely say that I am quite sure there is nothing wrong with this order. I must say that I am jaundiced about the whole idea of betting shops—not because I think that those who run chains of betting shops are in any way reprehensible; it is just that betting shops happen to attract the least economically benefited in our society. I have always opposed the easy extension of hours and other matters to do with betting shops because, for those who are drawn into such places to follow their dreams of making money out of betting in whatever form they choose, they are not a good thing.

As I said during the course of our last debate on this matter, it is a pity that the public policy of not encouraging gambling was released so easily. If we can make sure that people do not get into trouble and do not find themselves in squalid situations where they are offered stolen goods and other things—which can happen in such places—all well and good. I hope that the picture painted of an improvement in this area is the case. However, wherever there is a possibility to gamble in this country, I am afraid that a lot of the most disadvantaged people will be found going to it like bees to a honeypot. That is just the way of the world.

The Earl of Courtown

My Lords, this betting licensing order, as I said, contains two main provisions: it extends the licence from one to three years, and introduces new powers to cancel betting office licences—that is, so far as the grounds for the cancelling of licences can be regarded as laying down the character and condition of the premises, whether or not they are suitable for use as a licensed betting office, and also whether the premises have been conducted properly under the licence.

In addition, there is a new power to cancel betting office licences if a betting shop has been left empty for a period of more than 12 months. I note the comments made by noble Lords. I commend the draft order to the House.

On Question, Motion agreed to.