HL Deb 20 February 1997 vol 578 cc782-5

3.28 p.m.

Lord Haskel asked Her Majesty's Government:

In the light of the cancellation of large numbers of train services, what action they propose to take to ensure that South West Trains Ltd. honour the obligations into which they entered when securing the franchise to provide a high quality service; and what measures will be taken to provide services for the passengers affected.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, compliance with franchise agreements is a matter for the Franchising Director. In the case of South West Trains, the franchisee will be financially penalised for peak-period cancellations which they have had to make following the introduction of revised working arrangements for drivers. The company has now introduced a temporary timetable to minimise disruption to passengers, particularly at peak-period services.

Lord Haskel

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that rather evasive reply. Is he aware that, as the service on South West Trains has been deteriorating, so the notices telling passengers where to complain have been disappearing? Does the Minister agree that he has been able to stand at the Dispatch Box and tell us about the improving service and the reducing number of complaints because passengers no longer know where to complain to?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, of course that is nonsense. We have seen complaints on the privatised railway reduced by 30 per cent. If the Labour Party could point to an industry that they had run with a 30 per cent. reduction in complaints, I should be pleased to hear about it.

Undoubtedly the issue of South West Trains and its drivers could have been handled better by the company; no one disputes that. However, we know that this morning South West Trains announced that as a good will gesture travel on its services today would be free and that holders of monthly or longer season tickets would receive a free two-day extension to their tickets. In addition, passenger charter protections and compensations are in place which did not exist before.

South West Trains has a good record on reliability and punctuality since it introduced its services. I do not think we should decry that.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, would my noble friend remind the House of how many services were cancelled in the golden age of British Rail and how many days were lost in strikes?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, I believe that the numbers involved here are tiny compared to the days that were lost due to strikes. In recent times when there have been strikes on the railways leading to the cancellation of services—though they have been far fewer in number, and we welcome that fact—I have not seen condemnation of that from the party opposite.

Lord Allen of Abbeydale

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the concession of free travel today is limited to those travelling in standard class and that those travelling first class have to pay the full fare? Is that not a rather undesirable measure of class discrimination?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, no doubt the noble Lord speaks with the nation fully behind him about the plight of first class rail travellers!

We know that the deal for first class travellers on the railway, as for standard class travellers, has improved hugely. We welcome the recent announcement about the south-west coast mainline franchise and all the benefits that we shall see on that line.

Lord Beaumont of Whitley

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the urgency of putting this matter right, in view of the pressure on the roads of the south west come the summer, if any?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, we have to put this matter in perspective. I understand that there were only three cancellations in this morning's peak period, and only one of them was a planned cancellation. That compares with an average of 45 for the same period in the past couple of weeks. It is clear that South West Trains is putting this problem right. It has admitted that it did not handle the situation rightly and there were real problems. It is putting every endeavour into getting the service back to what it should be.

Lord Berkeley

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Franchising Director fining South West Trains £100,000 a week is little more than the cost that it has saved by sacking 70 drivers? Does he further agree that it is derisory, and no discouragement for the company not to repeat the process? Are the Government not embarrassed by this, their first franchise, which has gone so disastrously wrong?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, there are two points to make. Firstly, in the old days—no doubt the noble Lord would believe them to be the good old days—of British Rail, there were no such penalties or constraints. British Rail could do precisely what it wanted to do. Now penalties are imposed by the Franchising Director. Secondly, as there is now a clear commercial incentive for South West Trains to attract as many consumers to its services as it can, probably the best incentive not to have a repetition is the commercial cost as well as the bad publicity.

Lord Dixon-Smith

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that for a party with pretensions to government, the arithmetic shown by the previous question calls into doubt its competence? The sum of £100,000 to pay for 70 drivers for one week bears no relationship to any train driver's salary of which I have ever heard.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, the proper question of mathematics that we must ask the party opposite is exactly which bits of the railway they intend to buy back and from where they will raise the finance.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, is the Minister aware that we shall be answering the questions very shortly? Is it not remarkable that today for the first time we have elicited from the Minister a whimper of criticism of one of the privatised railway companies? What real compensation—not the derisory amounts—will passengers receive for that negligence on the part of that particular company? When will he take a firm line on some of the excesses, the extortionate gains that have been made by the executives of the Eversholt leasing company—for example, Mr. Andrew Jukes, who made an investment of £110,000 and obtained a profit of £15 million; Mr. Aylwood who made an investment of £80,000 and made a profit of £10 million; and Mr. Habgood, similarly? Is he happy with that situation?

Viscount Goschen

Oh dear, my Lords, we return to the politics of envy very quickly indeed. The fact is that those businesses were sold at the market price. If the noble Lord had wanted to put up his money to buy them, we should have treated his bid extremely seriously indeed. People put their money where there mouth was. They financed the businesses at a time when there was much political uncertainty about them, largely generated by noble Lords opposite. That has diminished and I am sure that the railway industry, like the passengers, believe that there will be another Conservative Government coming along very shortly, with maybe further gains to be made.