HL Deb 16 December 1997 vol 584 cc495-7

2.45 p.m.

Lord Hooson asked Her Majesty's Government:

Why the grants given to Welsh universities are £329 per student less than those given per student to English universities and £1,052 less per student than those given in Scotland.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, on the basis of the latest data for 1997-98, grant per full-time student in Wales is about £100 less than in England, not £329 as quoted by the noble Lord. The difference from the English figure is due to three main factors. First, Wales has had a lower research base and therefore less funding has been available from the research councils. Secondly, the mix of courses taught in Wales is somewhat less expensive than those in England. Thirdly, the higher education sector in Wales has been successful in attracting a strictly more than proportionate share of students as compared with England, thereby reducing the institutions' fixed costs per student.

Lord Hooson

My Lords, while I am grateful for that reply, is it not correct that an Answer given on 19th November in the other place gave the discrepancy as £159? Does it not suggest that the Welsh Funding Council is under-funded? Three of the universities in Wales are in rural areas. They have to attract students from outside their own, as it were, catchment area. Is it not very difficult for them to do so when the expenditure per student is £159 less per head than in England; £200 less per head than in Northern Ireland—again I refer to the Answer given in another place; and £1,000 less per head than in Scotland?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, of course there are differences between Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland; and that is to be expected. Even without devolution to Wales, the Welsh Office has discretion as to how it spends the grant that is available to it. Whether it spends that money on higher education as opposed to industrial development, for example, is a matter for the Welsh Office, which could well explain some of the differences.

Regarding the larger difference in Scotland to which the noble Lord refers, I can confirm that, very broadly, his figures are correct. But in Scotland there are far more four-year degrees than in the rest of the United Kingdom. There is also a far higher proportion of very expensive courses such as medicine and dentistry.

Lord Merlyn-Rees

My Lords, I hope to take tea with the chancellor of the University of Glamorgan later today—a university of which I am chancellor! Will I be able to warm the cockles of his heart and tell him that the discrepancy will be put right and that someone will speak to the Welsh Office?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, I hope that my noble friend enjoys his tea. However, I do not think I can give him any assurance that the factors which underlie the differences in funding have changed and therefore that the funding itself will change.

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, is the Minister aware that 70 per cent. of the students who attend the University of Wales come from elsewhere in the United Kingdom—that is, from overseas and England? How is Wales meant to compete in international markets when the universities are funded at a lower level in Wales than in Scotland?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey

My Lords, the noble Viscount is right in saying that a high proportion of students in Welsh universities come from outside Wales. But that does not mean that the funding per head, like for like, is any different. As I explained, Wales has a higher proportion of less expensive courses. Those are broadly arts courses as opposed to science and technology courses. Welsh universities and the University of Wales in particular have been successful in filling all the places on all their courses. That means that their fixed costs are more economical. I do not think it can be said that any individual student suffers as a result of the differences.