HL Deb 16 December 1997 vol 584 cc493-5

2.40 p.m.

Lord Renton of Mount Harry asked Her Majesty's Government:

What has been the estimated total cost of the United Kingdom's involvement in crisis management in former Yugoslavia over the past five years, including the cost of the presence of British defence forces.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Gilbert)

My Lords, the additional cost of the United Kingdom's involvement in crisis management in former Yugoslavia from 1st April 1992 to 31st March 1997 was £1,442 million.

Lord Renton of Mount Harry

My Lords, despite that cost, does the noble Lord share my satisfaction at the near certainty that the international stabilisation force is now likely to stay in former Yugoslavia after next June, preferably with American troops in it? Again harking back to that cost, is the Minister aware that the other day a German Minister gave the total cost to Germany of involvement in crisis management in former Yugoslavia as 17 billion deutschmarks—nearly £6 billion? Is that not a reminder to us all that, however expensive enlargement of the European Union will be, it is much better, and cheaper in the end, to have central and eastern European countries within the European Union rather than fighting each other outside it?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, I have absolutely no difficulty in agreeing with the noble Lord's last remarks. So far as concerns the presence in Bosnia of NATO forces, we hope that their stay will be limited. But it is certainly anticipated that we shall be there on the ground after next July.

As regards the comparison of figures, I have no idea on what basis the German Minister made his calculations. Ours are based on the additional cost, not the total cost, in which we are involved as a result of our presence in Bosnia.

Lord Randall of St. Budeaux

My Lords, on the question of costs as regards former Yugoslavia, is my noble friend aware that over the past several years the crisis has also given rise to 400,000 refugees? Does my noble friend agree with me that that makes a very strong case for enlarging the European Union?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, I am not sure that I would necessarily draw the connection that my noble friend draws. He is certainly right in saying that there have been a great many refugees. I am glad to say that it is one of the benefits of the investment we have made in our presence in Bosnia that quite a few of them have found it safe enough to return to their homes.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, in response to the criticisms made by Louise Arbour, the Yugoslav war crimes tribunal prosecutor, against France for harbouring war criminals in the French sector of the Serb enclave, the Quai d'Orsai said yesterday that the largest number of unarrested indictees were residing in the British sector? Does he agree that in view of the large sums of money being spent by the British taxpayer, we should be able to expect that British NATO forces will arrest war criminals and bring them to justice?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, with great respect to the noble Lord, there is nothing in our record in that respect for which to apologise.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, my noble friend said that he expected British troops to be in Bosnia after June next year. Can he say how much longer after June next year he estimates they will be there?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, I only wish that I could, but unfortunately it is not given to me to look that far into the future.

Lord Judd

My Lords, will my noble friend accept that many of us would want to pay the strongest possible tribute to the contribution made by British forces in former Yugoslavia? Has my noble friend been able to study recent remarks by the Secretary-General of NATO, who said that peacekeeping is one issue, but peace-making is another? Does he believe that we have the necessary resources in place to pursue peace-making as distinct from peacekeeping? By the same token, has he been able to study the comparative costs of the peacekeeping operation in Bosnia and other parts of former Yugoslavia and the pre-emptive deployment by the UN in Macedonia, which, I suggest, at a much reduced cost, has managed to preserve peace and reduce expenditure by the international community?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, certainly there is every advantage in being able to be on the ground early so as to pre-empt the kind of situation that arose in Bosnia and has not so far arisen, I am glad to say, in Macedonia. I have no idea, speaking off the top of my head, what are the UN costs in Macedonia. Clearly my noble friend does. That is as far as I can go at the moment.

Lord Craig of Radley

My Lords, can the Minister give any indication as to how the future additional costs of our presence will be met? Will they be met entirely by Her Majesty's Government; or will additional resources come from the international community?

Lord Gilbert

My Lords, again the noble Lord tempts me to predict matters which I have no competence to predict. As I am sure he will know, the costs of operations in Bosnia are, as it is, in part shared by the international community both through the EU and through sharing NATO infrastructure costs.