Training and Enterprise Councils: Finance (Hansard, 12 December 1996)

§ The Minister of State, Department for Education and Employment (Lord Henley)
My Lords, the Government have regular contacts with the Training and Enterprise National Council. The most recent was on Budget day when the Secretary of State for Education and Employment met with the council to discuss the implications of the public expenditure settlement.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the most recent paper—I am not sure whether he has just referred to it—prepared by the Training and Enterprise National Council is reported as being highly critical of the Government's training programmes? However, the paper referred to government appointed TECs. Will the Government publish that report? Surely it is essential that everyone involved with the training programmes should be aware of the contents and try to do something to put the matter right. If the findings of the paper are justified, will the position be critical because the TEC budget has now been reduced by no less than £34 million?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, publication is obviously a matter for the Training and Enterprise National Council. I must say, however, that following what was a very tight public expenditure round, expenditure on the programmes from the department delivered by the TECs is set to fall—as the noble Lord put it—by £34 million, that is 2.3 per cent., when compared with the expected spend in the current year. I must also tell the noble Lord that there has been a welcome fall in unemployment over the past year and the previous three or four years, including the number unemployed for six months or more where the fall was some 11 per cent. The opportunities provided by training for work and other programmes delivered by the TECs will be reduced by a mere 9 per cent. That should be seen in the context of an 11 per cent. fall in unemployment.

§ Lord Clark of Kempston
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that over the past three years the unemployment figure has fallen month after month? Is that due not only to the help that the TECs give but also to the competent management of the economy of this 1185 country which has in particular increased the number of small businesses by one million over the period of office of this Government? Does he further agree that to put that in jeopardy by introducing the social chapter or minimum wage would be disastrous?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I agree absolutely with my noble friend. Perhaps I may remind him that unemployment has fallen virtually every single month for the past 36 months. I believe that there was one month when it did not fall; and for that one month we received a lot of publicity. Sadly, we do not receive publicity for the falls that we had in the 35 other months. Unemployment has fallen and fallen again.

§ Earl Russell
My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether, for the first time since 1988, the public expenditure round was able to make provision for uprating the youth training allowance and the youth training bridging allowance?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, that is another question. I wrote to the noble Earl on this matter only yesterday; the letter may not have reached him. I can assure him that we were able to uprate one part of the youth training bridging allowance. The noble Earl will receive my letter shortly. He will be able to study it in due course.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, is it not a fact that the Government lost £118 million of European training aid money in the period 1994-96 because they did not put forward a training programme? Can the Minister tell me whether the Government will respond to the warning of the TECs that they could lose £280 million in 1997-99 if they do not put forward a programme in good time? I believe that that comes from the same report of the Training and Enterprise National Council.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I am not aware of the allegations that the noble Baroness makes. I shall look at them. The important point, as I stressed in my response to my noble friend, is that we have seen unemployment falling very quickly for a number of years at a time when it has been rising throughout the remainder of Europe. That seems to imply that the sort of training programmes we have are the right training programmes and that the economic management policies that we pursue are right. That is why unemployment is falling.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, if the Government have had to cut the programme by £34 million, it seems foolish to cast aside this European money which would be extremely helpful.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I said that I would look at the allegations made by the noble Baroness. I also said in answer to an earlier question that we have cut the TEC programme by some 2.3 per cent. in the light of a very difficult public expenditure round. It is right that the Government should retain control over public finances. That is why we do so. I also stressed that unemployment 1186 has been falling and is falling faster than the amount by which we have cut the training provision being made available to the TECs.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, despite what the Minister says about falling unemployment figures, is he aware that there is still grave cause for concern about the level of male unemployment in particular in areas which were once heavily industrialised? In view of the social problems involved, should not special attempts be made to deal with that issue?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to draw attention to particular aspects of unemployment. I think that she is right to draw attention to male unemployment. It is right to draw attention to youth unemployment. That is why we have the TECs. That is why we give them the flexibility to design their programmes so that they can concentrate on those who are particularly in need of help.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, will the Minister be more specific about training and the report produced by the Training and Enterprise National Council? Has he read the report? If so, will he confirm that it is a critical report? What will the Government do about it?

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, how the report is defined is a matter for the individual reader. We shall pay appropriate attention to that report. However, as I made clear to the noble Lord, publication of the report is a matter for the Training and Enterprise National Council.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, since the objective of the training exercise is to get people out of unemployment and back to work, is it not important that the trainee should have the will to succeed? Does the Minister consider that the situation is helped by the fact that the trainee who does not take the course offered will lose his benefit? Surely it would be more constructive to have a willing trainee.

§ Lord Henley
My Lords, I believe that it is also right to have a benefits system which encourages people either to take up opportunities to work or to train.