Turkey: Human Rights (Hansard, 10 December 1996)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, whether a state of internal armed conflict for the purpose of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions exists at any given time is a question of fact to be determined in the light of all the circumstances. It is not a matter for other governments to propose or dispose. We will continue to urge the Turkish Government to take a multi-faceted approach to the conflict in the south east.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. I am not quite sure what is meant by "multi-faceted". However, is not this article, which bans torture and murder of suspects and detainees, quite essential in view of the poor progress in improving basic human rights in Turkey, as was agreed when Turkey entered a customs union with the European Union? Will the Government work to obtain access for the International Committee of the Red Cross to Turkish prisons and police stations?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, first I should say that the multi-faceted approach means taking everything into consideration. I used the lawyers' words because I was told that they would be non-controversial. But this is a serious matter and I jest not. The issue which the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, raised is quite correct. The ban on torture and murder is a correct ban and it is high time that the government of Turkey, and the governments of some other nations too, having signed up to the matter, adhere to it.
We believe that the ICRC will continue to try to gain access to the prisons; to operate in the emergency region on an ad hoc basis; and certainly it has a unique role to play as the guardian of international humanitarian law. We shall support it in that role. It can act as an 932 intermediary in a way that no other body can, but every government in the European Union and in the Council of Europe should be giving their best support to the ICRC in doing that work.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, in that case, why did the Government see fit not to raise this matter at the recent human dimension review conference of the OSCE or at the Lisbon summit when there would have been an opportunity to take up that matter under the question of Turkish compliance with the code of conduct of the politico-military aspects of security? Do the Government and other states in Europe accept Turkey's denial that Common Article 3 applies to that conflict? Will the Government impress on Turkey that it is essential to give a favourable reply to the request for admission by the ICRC which has been renewed every year since 1983?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, there is absolutely no doubt from what I said in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, that we believe that Common Article 3 should be applied properly, but the factual situation in the area is confused. From this Dispatch Box I cannot take a view on the applicability of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. I do not believe that anybody in your Lordships' House can do so. That can be done only by the lawyers in the light of all the circumstances. We have frequent discussions in the OSCE about that. Further to that, we take up those matters with leading Turkish politicians, including the Foreign Minister, Mrs. Ciller, when she was in London last week.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, I hold no brief for any organisation whose activities result in the deaths of innocent civilians. Does the Minister agree, however, that the leader of the PKK, Abdullah Oçalan, has recently declared that he would adhere to Common Article 3 and is willing to enter into negotiations with no fixed agenda? Is it not time for the Government to urge the Turkish Government to enter into genuine negotiations with that armed opposition group?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I do not believe that many of your Lordships would do anything but support Turkey in its efforts to combat terrorism. Let us be quite clear about this. The PKK is an organisation which is certainly not at all benign in its activity. There are political parties and we believe that some action taken against the Kurdish political party—the HADEP—was probably over the top. But the point is that unless Turkey can combat terrorism, it will never overcome the problems that it has.
The noble Lord referred to the leader of the PKK, Mr. Abdullah Oçalan. The last that I heard from him was on a recent Med TV broadcast. I am sure that most noble Lords will share my disgust of a broadcast in which Mr. Oçalan condoned the suicide bombers' actions. That is really not the behaviour of a leader of a party which is seeking to bring about some form of dialogue. Terrorism is not dialogue; it will never be dialogue. That is why Turkey is right as a government to make efforts to combat terrorism.

§ Lord Bridges
My Lords, regarding the original Question, can the Minister tell the House a little more about the way in which a determination under Article 3 of the Convention is arrived at? The noble Baroness seemed to suggest that some collective discussion between lawyers was necessary. Would that take place between the signatories of the convention, or in some other forum? It would be helpful to know a little more in that respect.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I must admit to the House that I cannot answer the noble Lord with absolute precision. I would rather write to him on this occasion. I do believe that this is a matter for lawyers, because it is only in a legal framework that this can be fully applied. I shall write to the noble Lord and place a copy of that letter in the Library of the House.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, given the fact that Turkey gave certain assurances on human rights when it joined a customs union with the European Union, do the Government now support the call for a freeze on financial assistance that is linked to the customs union (which was passed by an overwhelming majority in the European Parliament a few months ago) in the light of Turkey's poor record on human rights since that time?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, as the noble Baroness knows, the European Union has always felt it better to maintain a dialogue with Turkey on political issues, including human rights. However, the Council of Ministers has frequently urged the Turkish Government to make a great deal more progress. There is concern and that was expressed in the Commission's October report on the customs union and in two European Parliament resolutions. I understand that the matter is to come before the European Union's Council of Ministers shortly. I am quite certain that the matter will be taken further.