HL Deb 10 December 1996 vol 576 cc933-5

2.52 p.m.

Lord Dubs asked Her Majesty's Government:

What discussions have taken place with the Swiss Government, either directly or through the European Union, regarding banking secrecy and its implications for deposits allegedly made by Nazis and, more recently, by others such as Presidents Marcos and Ceausescu.

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary discussed unclaimed wartime deposits in Swiss banks with the Foreign Minister in Berne in September. My right honourable friend is fully satisfied with the Swiss authorities' conduct of these inquiries. We have had no exchanges with the Swiss Government about deposits by former Presidents Marcos and Ceausescu.

Lord Dubs

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Does she agree that a quick resolution of these difficulties is urgent? If that is not achieved, victims of the Holocaust who have some claim to the money in Swiss banks will find payment coming through too late for them to derive any benefit. Further, in the interests of their own international reputation will the Minister urge the Swiss Government that they ought to investigate the way in which dictators of poor countries deposit money in Swiss banks—money which may frequently have been misappropriated or stolen from their own people?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, in answer to the noble Lord's first supplementary, it is a matter of note—and certainly of relief—that the Swiss Government have wasted no time in getting their legislation on the way towards the statute book. I understand that it is likely to be operational from 1st January next, thereby entering into effect faster than any other Swiss legislation that I can remember in recent times. There is no hesitation in going forward with this as quickly as possible to help people who might be so compensated.

The noble Lord's second question goes a little wider. However, from my contacts with other parts of the world, the noble Lord may well imagine that deposits in secret Swiss bank accounts by people who are not in fact depositing their own money are a matter of grave concern. I know that it is a matter of concern to Foreign Minister Cotti, just as much as it is to any noble Lords in this House.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether any progress has been made in discussions with the US and French Governments on steps to renegotiate the 1946 Washington Agreement? Is it not vital to reopen that agreement, given the fact that the Swiss Government have said that it could take as long as five years to report on the matter?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I do not wish to appear difficult to the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, but, until the investigation is under way, I really cannot see grounds for reopening the 1946 Washington Agreement. If the investigation into the Swiss financial institutions before and during World War II brings to light new information, we would consider further action in consultation with the Swiss, the US and the French Governments. I do not believe that the five-year period mentioned by the noble Baroness is realistic; indeed, I believe that it will be done rather faster than that. There is great deal of concern in Switzerland to get on with the matter and to resolve it once and for all.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, can the Minister tell us why it has taken 50 years for anything to be done?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

No, my Lords, I cannot do so. I think that I am just as impatient as the noble Lord.

Viscount Waverley

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House what is being done to attack the ill-gotten wealth of drug traffickers whose funds are suspected of being in secret accounts? For example, is the information being shared with the authorities in producing countries?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, the noble Viscount may know that a very substantial effort has been made, particularly by Commonwealth countries, both to trace the ill-gotten gains of drug traffickers and, indeed, money involved in money laundering. It is a matter of great concern at an international level, not only as regards Swiss bank accounts but also in the banking world as a whole. Some progress has already been made; more needs to be made. I believe that we are moving in a positive direction to get people to at least be honest about this money.

Lord Hylton

My Lords, with regard to moneys deposited before or during the Second World War, will Her Majesty's Government ensure that the legitimate interests of European gypsies are not overlooked?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I shall certainly bring the noble Lord's question to the notice of those authorities who are considering the matter. I cannot give the noble Lord an undertaking because I am not part of the investigation team. However, it seems to be a point of consideration which should be taken into account.

Lord Wallace of Saltaire

My Lords, given the fact that a large number of offshore banking centres are under British jurisdiction both around the British Isles and in the Caribbean, is the Minister satisfied that our rules are now tight enough to cope with money laundering, and so on, in those centres?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, a major effort has been made over the past few years to tighten up the legislation in all dependent territories and, indeed, in other territories where there is offshore banking. I am not really confident that we have ever gone quite far enough. All I know is that the authorities in the countries concerned, who we suspect suffer from illicit deposits in offshore banks, are very much aware of the point. They have asked for assistance in working out how to combat the situation. We shall give that assistance whenever we possibly can.