Nuclear Materials: Illicit Trade (Hansard, 16 April 1996)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, the Government are concerned about all reports of illicit trade in nuclear materials. But we have seen no authoritative corroboration of trafficking through Afghanistan; nor have any incidents been reported to the International Atomic Energy Agency. International co-operation is essential in the fight against illicit trade of this sort. The issue will be on the agenda of the Nuclear Safety Summit in Moscow this week.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her Answer which is an example to us all. Can she give a little more detail about the meeting in Moscow? I have been given to understand that the summit will specifically examine this subject. Is that the case?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, what I have just intimated is that nuclear smuggling will be high on the agenda of the Nuclear Safety Summit to be held in Moscow on 19th April. We have been actively involved for some time in international efforts to confront the problem, but it is the first time that the issue will have been addressed at such a high level. The evidence of the seriousness that we, the G7 and our Russian partners attach to the question is clear from the real efforts everyone is making to resolve the problem.

§ Lord Monkswell
My Lords, bearing in mind the evidence that we have that nuclear material has been smuggled, or attempted to be smuggled, into Germany from the former Soviet Union, is it not likely that nuclear material is being smuggled into those countries named in the Question on the Order Paper? Can the House be assured that the Government are deploying what might be described as secret service or intelligence resources to detect the smuggling that common sense tells us is probably going on?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, there is a great deal of difference between people's perceptions of this and the facts. We have always taken the question of nuclear smuggling seriously, but we must keep it in proportion. In nearly all the reported cases, the amounts of nuclear material that have been found are absolutely tiny—only small fractions of what would be needed to make a nuclear weapon. There is no way in which we should try to pre-empt the summit outcome. We have for some time had contacts with officials and scientists in nuclear institutions in other countries, including the 560 former Soviet Union. We are using all those contacts to address the issues of accountability for and security of nuclear material. That is what the conference in Moscow will do. The noble Lord may call it evidence, but I have to say that much of it is circumstantial, and a great deal of it is unproven. Even so, we are going to some considerable lengths to ensure that all countries exercise proper control over their nuclear material.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, while I of course accept that we must keep reports of this kind in proportion, and not exaggerate them, does the Minister agree that if there is any truth in them, it would be a matter of the utmost gravity? Not only could the material be purchased by irresponsible governments, as has been claimed, but it could also get into the hands of terrorists. Will the Minister tell the House why only a tiny part of the 1 billion dollars authorised by Congress for the dismantling of Russia's nuclear weapons has so far been spent?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I am afraid that I cannot answer in your Lordships' House for what happens in the American House of Representatives. I can answer for things for which we are responsible. When I talk of keeping this matter in proportion, the one thing I should point out to your Lordships is that it may be easier than any of us would like to smuggle some small amounts of fissile material, but it needs a great deal of knowledge and facility to turn that into the dangers of which the noble Baroness spoke. We are alive to the problem. We are working on the problem, and we shall leave no stone unturned in ensuring that nuclear smuggling is stopped.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, does the Minister agree that as the Americans are taking the lead in negotiating with the Russians about this problem, it is perfectly reasonable to ask a question in this House about expenditure on the problem that has been guaranteed by the Americans? I was rather surprised by the way in which the Minister answered my question at the outset.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I understand that the noble Baroness is interested in the matter. So am I. But I have no influence over Congress directly, although we try to put the British point of view to individuals in Congress through the embassy in Washington. We seek to ensure that the American Administration live up to their duties. In this matter, as in many others, there is a difference between the White House and Congress, but we shall go on working away at it.