§ 2.55 p.m.
§ Lord Belhaven and Stenton asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ What representations they are making to the Russian Government through the Council of Europe and through diplomatic channels to cease the 561 systematic destruction of towns and villages in Chechnya and to end the imprisonment of males from 12 years old and upwards in "filtration" camps.
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, we and our EU partners have regular contacts with Russia on the situation in Chechnya. In particular, EU Foreign Ministers made clear on 25th March their deep concern at recent reports of unprovoked attacks on Chechen towns and at the deterioration in the human rights situation.
Lord Belhaven and StentonMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Can she confirm press reports that the chain of command in Russia has broken down, which would account for the fact that the recent ceasefire ordered by President Yeltsin did not take place? Can she give the House any details of the "filtration" camps I mentioned in my Question, which, according to information I have, are the same as concentration camps with torture and inhuman treatment regularly taking place? Can she confirm or deny that?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, we are obviously concerned about reports concerning the chain of command within the Russian forces. It is a matter of considerable discussion within the OSCE to try to ensure that the peace plan proposed some weeks ago is put into operation. But that plan requires, as my noble friend said, a chain of command to make it work. As to what my noble friend said about "filtration" camps, we are obviously deeply concerned at reports of all human rights abuses in Chechnya. We have repeatedly called on all sides to restore respect for human rights and to support the efforts of the OSCE and others who continue to investigate reports of violations. I am glad to say that the efforts of the OSCE in this work have improved considerably from a few weeks ago.
§ Lord ReaMy Lords, does the Minister feel that the IMF lost an important opportunity to influence Russia towards a peaceful settlement of this expensive and destructive war when it agreed to the first tranche of a further 10.5 billion dollar loan to Russia last month? Cannot further tranches be tied to the withdrawal of Russian troops and the start of talks, without preconditions, so that the loan is not spent largely on continuing the war as the previous IMF loan was?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, I do not believe that the noble Lord is right about the last IMF loan having been spent on a continuation of the war. I know, however, that conditionality is applicable only if it can be applied directly. The 10.5 billion dollar loan to Russia from the IMF is to support economic and political reform in Russia as a whole. I genuinely believe that it would be counter-productive to the many areas of Russia seeking to reform by means of macro-economic stabilisation if the IMF programmes were to be halted. We have to continue using the OSCE and the Council of Europe influence we now have with Russia to bring an end to the Chechen problem and to 562 help the people of Chechnya to build up their lives following the terrible devastation they have suffered as a result of the conflict.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, did not the Question originally raised by the Minister's noble friend Lord Belhaven and Stenton ask specifically what was being done through the Council of Europe? The Minister touched upon that only marginally in her last reply. In view of the fact that we are members of the Council of Europe, together with a number of our colleagues and the Soviet Union, is there any particular reason why representations should not be made through that avenue which is open to us? Does the Minister intend to use those contacts within the context mentioned by the noble Lord in his Question?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, the answer to the noble Lord's question is yes. We must understand that Russia became a member of the Council of Europe only on 28th February last. The United Kingdom has been very active in the Council of Europe in respect of this matter. The Parliamentary Assembly and the member states' governments are to monitor the progress of Russia's compliance with her commitments. I learnt this morning that a visit is to take place to Chechnya in May. That is the next step for which we were looking but about which I was unable to respond to my noble friend Lady Park of Monmouth last night. Progress is being made. We expect Russia to respect the conditions imposed by the Parliamentary Assembly, which it agreed, concerning its terms of entry to the Council of Europe.
§ Lord FinsbergMy Lords, would it help the Minister to know that the Council of Europe has established a working group to deal with Chechnya and that next week the group is meeting the Russian delegation to the Council of Europe, one of whose members is Mr. Zyuganov?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, that is most welcome news. The working group will be extremely valuable in backing up all that governments do and the OSCE mission tries to do. The situation is a good deal better than when I last answered questions on the matter in this House. There is now an assistance group which I hope will work with the Council of Europe working group so that talks may be brokered as soon as possible between all parties.
Lord Belhaven and StentonMy Lords, can my noble friend comment on the recent report that General Dudayev offered to meet President Yeltsin face to face?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, I believe that I heard the same report as my noble friend. I know that President Yeltsin wanted to nominate someone to meet Dudayev. I understand that that is still a matter of hope but that a meeting has not yet taken place.
§ Baroness BlackstoneMy Lords, perhaps I may return to the peace plan announced by President Yeltsin earlier this month. Do the British Government support the terms of that plan? Are any representatives of the 563 international community in touch with the Chechen leadership? Is any pressure being put on them to come to the table because I believe that earlier this month the Chechen side rather than the Russian side broke the ceasefire?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, the noble Baroness is right in saying that on this occasion the Chechen side broke the ceasefire. However, on other occasions the Russians have broken the apparent ceasefire. Therefore, I do not believe that one can attribute blame more to one side than the other. The conflict is a tragedy and has claimed thousands of lives. That was why we were glad to see President Yeltsin's proposals for finding a peaceful solution. However, in order to attain that peaceful solution there must be an end to the fighting, a withdrawal of troops, a complete ceasefire—no little pockets of troops suddenly stirring up trouble in the outskirts of Chechnya—and working towards elections. Only in that way will the Chechen people be able to have their say on the future of Chechnya. We urge all sides to support the efforts to find a negotiated solution. When they show that willingness, the international community will be able to help to a greater degree.