HL Deb 29 March 1995 vol 562 cc1617-9

2.58 p.m.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil asked Her Majesty's Government

Where responsibility will lie for safety on the privatised railways.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Viscount Goschen)

My Lords, in any industry, the Health and Safety at Work Act places responsibility for ensuring safety on the party controlling the activity in question, in this case Railtrack and the individual operators. Railtrack will have primary responsibility for ensuring the integrity of the network. The Health and Safety Executive will continue to act as the independent regulatory body responsible for enforcing all aspects of safety on the railways.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. I certainly accept that anyone engaged in the management of railway operations has a huge responsibility. Can I be assured from his reply that the final responsibility and the power to oversee safety arrangements are in independent hands?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, yes, the key oversight role is with the Health and Safety Commission.

Lord Taylor of Gryfe

My Lords, is the Minister aware that on Friday of this week the chairman of British Rail will retire? He has carried those responsibilities for the past five years. In thanking him for his service, will the Minister note that he described the plans for privatisation over which he had to preside as inordinately expensive and intensely bureaucratic and stated that he would not buy shares in any of the companies concerned?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, Sir Bob has the right to express his own opinions. However, it is right to bear in mind that he wanted a vertically integrated, shall we say, monolithic railway, and we did not.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, I echo what my noble friend Lord Taylor said about the contribution made by Sir Bob Reid—sometimes challenging, often controversial, but absolutely right on this occasion. Will the noble Viscount indicate whether he is satisfied with railway safety at present? While it would be wrong to describe the railways as unsafe, is it not correct to say that failures resulting from dilapidated equipment consequential on investment deficiency cause immense disruption, inconvenience and massive delays? What do the Government propose to do about that now rather than waiting for privatisation?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, we give the issue of safety paramount importance. We believe that, with privatisation, the more efficient running of the railway, together with access to new sources of commercial funds and investment, will provide a better railway. As regards the current position, British Rail has invested £4 billion in new rolling stock since 1979. I very much welcome BR's recent formal invitation to tender for further Networker trains for the Kent services.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, the Minister has not replied to my question. Is it not a fact that substantial disruption, inconvenience and delays occur because the Government failed to provide British Rail with sufficient investment to enable dilapidated equipment to be removed and replaced by effective modem equipment? Why do the Government not turn their attention to that problem immediately?

Viscount Goschen

No, my Lords, I disagree with the noble Lord. I repeat my contention that we believe that privatisation will bring significant benefits to the railway system and the travelling public.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, aside from the main Question, which received a satisfactory and correct Answer, has not the effect of the supplementary questions flowing from it been unnecessarily to breed alarm and despondency? That is bound to undermine the proper course of railway or any other privatisation. In a way, is it not an abuse of parliamentary freedom?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, it is certainly not for me to try to suggest what questions noble Lords should put. It is for me to try to answer them to the best of my ability. I believe that I have managed to reassure the House about the safety arrangements which will be in place after privatisation.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, can the noble Viscount give some indication of the nature and extent of the new funds to which the privatised industries will have access? Have not those funds existed for a long time? What new sources of finance are there which do not come from abroad?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, the new sources of funds are private sector investors who will run the railway and provide their own commercial funding for a decent, proper and substantially better railway network.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil

My Lords, will my noble friend accept my congratulations on the versatility he has shown in answering supplementary questions which have absolutely nothing to do with the original Question?

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, we aim to please.

Lord Harding of Petherton

My Lords, as one who uses the Great Western line of British Rail a great deal, I wish to ask whether my noble friend is aware that improvements on the line over the past year have been considerable. I can only suggest that that is due to the coming privatisation of the line.

Viscount Goschen

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend's comment.